There Are Amtrak Haters Out There

[FayeforCure]

“We always had to scrape the money together, and it’s still always tough to come up with that money for Amtrak because there are Amtrak haters out there, people who don’t like it.”
Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.) came to mind.

“He’s coming around. He supported Amtrak funding the last time around, and he was one of the ‘big four’ that came up with the reauthorization. His issue in there was he wanted to privatize high-speed rail. He probably could have done that if [Sen. John] McCain (R-Ariz.) had won” the Presidency, but “he’s not going to get support out of the new Obama FRA to privatize that line. He basically wanted to privatize the Northeast Corridor and have Amtrak privatized, have a private company take that over.”

He recalled that Mica had supported the commuter rail notion for Central Florida.
“He’s not as hard-lined anymore; in fact, he has even supported Amtrak running SunRail… I think he realized too that you can’t not give an agency a legitimate budget and then complain that they are not operating correctly. No public transportation pays for itself, so you have to subsidize.”

Returning to Amtrak and trains along the Gulf Coast, he said, “Any rational person would say, ‘We need to address some of the issues with the costs on the long lines, â€" the Sunset Limited, when we get that back â€" and, of course, running the whole way to L.A. Those prices are really expensive and there are flights that are cheaper, but you have to think of the system holistically, and I think that’s the way the Congresswoman and a lot of people do.”

The Sunset may not return, but there is movement to bring passenger rail service from New Orleans to Jacksonville and on to Orlando.

“No question. The Congresswoman would kill them if they didn’t. That’s ideal. It is expensive and the problem that we’re facing now is that states have to be partners in this system to maintain the things and do that instead of ‘Look, we’ve got no money. The federal government wants us, they need to do it.’
Martinelli  said “They presented a couple of options. Amtrak isn’t even love with running that Sunset Limited line because it’s expensive for them, so they weren’t going to kill themselves to rebuild the line, but CSX was up in a year, had the system up and going. That’s something we’re going to have to pressure Amtrak [on].”

Tomorrow: Commuter rail for Jacksonville, and more

http://www.examiner.com/x-10977-Jacksonville-Transportation-Examiner~y2009m9d3-Amtrak-funding-is-still-in-the-hopper

[WeeklyJoe]

I was having a couple rounds in a pub with friends tonight, and part of the conversation became about Amtrak travel. I ended up being the only person with any experience outside of the NEC.

As soon as Jacksonville to New Orleans was mentioned I became a tour guide through recent history, including Amtrak, JAX, CSX, Katrina, and loose talk about stations (or depots) being out in the middle of nowhere (like our SAV).

It was disappointing to those listening there is no longer E/W service between the two cities, AND the location of the Jacksonville Amtrak station is neither downtown or near the airport. I tried to instill hope to them there was a chance this could all change.

Nobody hated Amtrak, they just didn't know anything about it, or what it might take to improve it.

[FayeforCure]

I was having a couple rounds in a pub with friends tonight, and part of the conversation became about Amtrak travel. I ended up being the only person with any experience outside of the NEC.

As soon as Jacksonville to New Orleans was mentioned I became a tour guide through recent history, including Amtrak, JAX, CSX, Katrina, and loose talk about stations (or depots) being out in the middle of nowhere (like our SAV).

It was disappointing to those listening there is no longer E/W service between the two cities, AND the location of the Jacksonville Amtrak station is neither downtown or near the airport. I tried to instill hope to them there was a chance this could all change.

Nobody hated Amtrak, they just didn't know anything about it, or what it might take to improve it.

Exactly. That makes it even worse when Congressman John Mica, through whose district the Amtrak commuter rail Jax to Miami would run, is such an Amtrak hater. Some congressmen are just too detached from the people's interest and persist in their almost exclusive focus on corporate interests.

[reednavy]

Amtrak heter, now that's a new one.

[heights unknown]

I never thought Amtrak was that bad that "Amtrak Haters" are lurking in the forum and out in the public.  Alright all you "Amtrak Haters," come OUT of the closet!

Heights Unknown

[Ocklawaha]

To make this come true, all we need is to rebuild Jacksonville Terminal, and add the RDC to Gainesville.

author=FayeforCure link=topic=6013.msg95182#msg95182 date=1252070743]
Exactly. That makes it even worse when Congressman John Mica, through whose district the Amtrak commuter rail Jax to Miami would run, is such an Amtrak hater. Some congressmen are just too detached from the people's interest and persist in their almost exclusive focus on corporate interests.

Seems to me your focus is hating Mica, much more then it is about helping Amtrak. Every single post without regard to subject matter somehow ends in attempted character assassination.

How did I meet him? I was upset at the Republican Speak in his first campaign about Amtrak and rail in general. Called his office and within a day or two, we spent a rather intense hour with AMTRAK 101. Over the next few weeks we met again and again, and I laid out a concept that I called "Central Florida Commuter Rail." The idea of a private Amtrak, isn't so radical either, having been done throughout Europe, in fact Virgin and Air France are both involved. There is a theory that turning the equipment over to the railroads and giving them tax relief to the extent that we "make an offer that can't be refused", would probably do the trick. At least for now, we have Mica on TEAM FLORIDA. At least he understands the subject matter.

There will be NO AMTRAK COMMUTER RAIL JAX TO MIAMI, we are to gain two train splits in Jacksonville, which will result in the Meteor and Star, sending half of their LONG DISTANCE NYC-MIA equipment down the Florida East Coast and the other half to Tampa. If successful, this could grow into a PUSH-PULL CORRIDOR service at some distant date in the future. Meanwhile two arrivals and two departures daily hardly makes for a "commuter rail plan." Even worse for Jacksonville, unless Amtrak is willing to split up the back to back morning southbound and evening northbound trains, then BOTH of these will arrive NORTHBOUND in the afternoon or evening, and SOUTHBOUND in the morning. This schedule is unlikely to inspire a single passenger from St. Augustine to Jacksonville, with long-distance fares, and running counter flow of our commuters.

If Jacksonville, REALLY wants to be a player in corridor service, or commuter rail, now is the time to speak up. We need a JTA-CITIZENS COMMITTEE to make a plan for corridor schedules that at least give us some traffic relief. The proposed "Gulf Wind" (Sunset) schedule is nearly perfect for Jacksonville commuters, but without stations at Baldwin, and/or Macclenny, the closest place to board will be Lake City. Gainesville is another golden opportunity being ignored.

Faye, (or anyone else) if there are more posts to come, where you are not clear on the subject, just send me a PM and I will do my best to give you answers.


OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

author=FayeforCure link=topic=6013.msg95182#msg95182 date=1252070743]
Exactly. That makes it even worse when Congressman John Mica, through whose district the Amtrak commuter rail Jax to Miami would run, is such an Amtrak hater. Some congressmen are just too detached from the people's interest and persist in their almost exclusive focus on corporate interests.

Seems to me your focus is hating Mica, much more then it is about helping Amtrak. Every single post without regard to subject matter somehow ends in attempted character assassination.

How did I meet him? I was upset at the Republican Speak in his first campaign about Amtrak and rail in general. Called his office and within a day or two, we spent a rather intense hour with AMTRAK 101. If Jacksonville, REALLY wants to be a player in corridor service, or commuter rail, now is the time to speak up. We need a JTA-CITIZENS COMMITTEE to make a plan for corridor schedules that at least give us some traffic relief. The proposed "Gulf Wind" (Sunset) schedule is nearly perfect for Jacksonville commuters, but without stations at Baldwin, and/or Macclenny, the closest place to board will be Lake City. Gainesville is another golden opportunity being ignored.

Ock, I'm simply posting an article that was published yesterday. We all want Amtrak to operate a Jax Miami service. Despite your Amtrak 101 with Mica, back in the early nineties, he has consitently voted to cut Amtrak funding. To starve Amtrak, so it would be an easy target for privatization.

The article rightly states: "you can’t not give an agency a legitimate budget and then complain that they are not operating correctly"

On your second statement I agree: We need schedules that work for commuters.

[FayeforCure]

Faye is this true?

Unfortunately it is.

Before he was the minority leader on the Transportation committee, he said this:

Mica, a member of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure's Subcommittee on Railroads, is well-known for being an opponent of government assistance to Amtrak. Mica has said, "Amtrak needs major surgery and reorganization" and "Amtrak is not just broken, it is actually bankrupt." [1]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Mica

Only once ( in all 17 years in Congress) did he vote for an Amtrak funding increase,.......when he was able to get the bill to include a provision that would lead to the replacement of the Acela ( one of Amtrak's most profitable lines) by private industry run HSR.

Mica himself has been a longtime critic of Amtrak. But approval from a critic gives of the indication that the bill may have some potential.

There are some differences in both bills. Under the House bill, the Department of Transportation would have to seek proposals from companies to create a high-speed service. Mica highly supports the idea and says it is a good way for the United States to catch up with both Europe and Asia. Under this plan, one could get from New York to Washington DC in under two hours.

http://www.groundreport.com/US/Amtrak-Bill-Passes-Through-the-US-House-and-US-Sen

[Dog Walker]

Maybe he's an opponent of "Amtrak-as-it-is" (understandable) and a supporter of "Amtrak-as-it-could-be".  I'm not a supporter of Amshacks and 18 hours behind schedule either.

The Federal Government, States and local governments pumped billions of dollars into airport development to stimulate economic growth.  Billions were spent on Interstates.  Now that those projects are completed, it's time to put money into our rail infrastructure FOR THE SAME REASONS.

[mtraininjax]

Mica just spent 17 million to help upgrade the Auto-Train station in Stanford. Jax will get money as well for upgrades to the box it calls a station up on OKH. I'd hardly call Mica an Amtrak Hater.

[FayeforCure]

Mica just spent 17 million to help upgrade the Auto-Train station in Stanford. Jax will get money as well for upgrades to the box it calls a station up on OKH. I'd hardly call Mica an Amtrak Hater.

Correction: Amtrak ie. the Taxpayers spent money ( $10.5 million) to upgrade the Auto-Train station in Sanford. All Mica did was ANNOUNCE that Amtrak was going to do this.

Mica did secure $750,000 "for design and construction of improved access roads to the Sanford Amtrak Auto Train Station. Phase I of the project will support roadway enhancements, including widening of Persimmon Avenue to three lanes, improved signage and traffic signals."

That's a road earmark. He is good at that.

http://blogs.news-journalonline.com/politics/2009/07/mica-secures-sanford-auto-trai.html

I admit, the media reporting is ( intentionally?) misleading.

[FayeforCure]

Maybe he's an opponent of "Amtrak-as-it-is" (understandable) and a supporter of "Amtrak-as-it-could-be".  I'm not a supporter of Amshacks and 18 hours behind schedule either.

The Federal Government, States and local governments pumped billions of dollars into airport development to stimulate economic growth.  Billions were spent on Interstates.  Now that those projects are completed, it's time to put money into our rail infrastructure FOR THE SAME REASONS.

I whole-heartedly agree with your second paragraph. Why has it always been ok to "subsidize" roads and airports, but not rail?

On you first statement,........I wish it was true. John Mica's statement "Amtrak is not just broken, it is actually bankrupt" isn't as innoculous as you put it.

Turns out John Mica did an interview on C-span in 2005 where he openly talked about dismantling Amtrak. Several bloggers reported this at that time. Unfortunately I have trouble accessing C-Span archives, but you are welcome to do your own search.

BTW, starving Amtrak is in keeping with an overall Republican strategy of starving government of revenue ( taxes), so as to not only shrink government, but to also undermine its effectiveness. Having had a hand in undermining a government program's effectiveness and then calling for its dismantling "because of its ineffectiveness" is a well-known political strategy.

As the article starting this thread correctly states:

you can’t not give an agency a legitimate budget and then complain that they are not operating correctly.

[thelakelander]

So Mica does not like Amtrak and his opponents don't like the projects he supports (ex. Orlando commuter rail).  So what should we do with this information?

[Ocklawaha]

I would venture a guess that we are all supposed to hate Mica, without regards to his support or lack of support of ANY issue. It has been made painfully clear that if Faye, could walk on water, Mica, would be accused of tickling her feet. Not a chance of bipartisanship on any issue. Oh the humanity!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Of course there is.  This nothing new.  So should we be doing with this information is my question?