Streetcars Return to Savannah

[Ocklawaha]

I would love to see a REAL trolley here. But I don't know if any of the city leaders have enough of a brain to know this is a good idea.

Theres no need for it here.  The trolley makes good sense for Savannah, it only runs along river street and provides service to the tourists and locals hitting the bars and shopping.  It doesn't run anywhere else, though it seems like a line down to forsyth park or to the other downtown parking lots would make sense.

We do sort of have a trolley, the skyway, no one uses it.

Theres no need for it here? Theres no need for a Billion Dollar boom in downtown? You might recall that the Skyway was never completed to its full 8 mile plan. The Skyway was supposed to be completed with a "Rosa Parks" type intermodal  station at each extreme, fed by bus routes that would no longer loop through downtown. We didn't build to plan, we never rerouted the buses, never completed the intermodal interchanges, never ordered the complete trains and never reached the sports and entertainment district, or the urban neighborhoods. If we want to attract the quality venues in our urban core, nothing could be better then recreating the once world famous, Jacksonville Traction Company.


Electric streetcars throughout, electric buses in the core (replace the "Trolleys" with trolley bus), connect to Skyway, and Commuter Rail... Of course there is always option 2, just buy more sparkling city buses.

OCKLAWAHA

[JaxNative68]

the savannah tracks were already in place and in use by freight trains prior to the trolley being put back into use.  i'm sure that has a big reason as to why they are able to make it a free ride.  unfortunately the costs to put a street car back in use in jacksonville are far greater, thus jax would have to charge riders.  i like the fact that savannah is using biodiesel to power the trolley, a whole lot cleaner than when the freight trains roll through with their cloud of toxic gas.

[jbroadglide]

ROAD TRIP!! Who's up for a weekend road trip to Savannah to check out the new streetcar? Sure it'll take two hours to get there for a 2 minute ride..maybe three minutes if we're lucky..but it would be cool.

[JaxNative68]

wait until St. Patrick's day and see if the trolley can fit down river street then.

[Lucasjj]

Although not related to the streetcars...

An interesting "learning from" article would be the impact that the Savannah College or Art and Design has had on reviving the core of Savannah. I don't know how easy it would be to obtain that info, but I know that they took over many of the unused buildings downtown, provided an art scene, and provided a constant customer base to downtown businesses. With FCCJ now becoming a four year school, and the new UNF partnership with MOCA, SCAD's impact could be a roadmap for the schools here. Although we obviously missed out on the impact the Art Institute could have had by locating downtown.

[JaxNative68]

It is a night and day difference of the Savannah before SCAD and the Savannah of SCAD today.  When I attended SCAD in the early-mid 90's the City and citizens of Savannah still looked at SCAD and the students as intruders and did not care for them.  I don't think it was until the 00's that they finally realized the positive impact that SCAD had on their city.  Now they truly embrace SCAD, its students and everything else that comes along with those two.

[ralpho37]

Perfect opening line: "While Jacksonville continues to make excuses, little sister Savannah has joined the ranks of cities with streetcars in operation."

Hopefully people will start to get the message that as of now, we are a city of excuses, not of action.

[9a is my backyard]

They average more riders than the skyway!  I was disappointed when John Delaney was on Urban Jacksonville Weekly and said Jacksonville wasn't big enough for rail transit. This goes a long way to disprove that. I love that Savannah was referred to as our little sister

lake, do you have any info on how much of the operating costs are covered by parking fees?

[Fallen Buckeye]

Seems like a Water St. line would benefit the convention center too since it would provide an easy link between some of the hotels and Prime Osborne.

[Ocklawaha]

the savannah tracks were already in place and in use by freight trains prior to the trolley being put back into use.  i'm sure that has a big reason as to why they are able to make it a free ride.  unfortunately the costs to put a street car back in use in jacksonville are far greater, thus jax would have to charge riders.  i like the fact that savannah is using biodiesel to power the trolley, a whole lot cleaner than when the freight trains roll through with their cloud of toxic gas.

We could have a fare or a fare free system, it just depends on what we value more, auto traffic because people won't pay a fare, or walkability because the auto traffic stayed in the driveway. ALso keep in mind that streetcar O&M costs are LOWER then diesel buses and probably POTATO-CHIP-TRUCK-THINKS-ITS-A-TROLLEY (PCT) thing.
The cost for streetcar is NOT very much, since using steel ties and poured concrete with a fairly light rail such as 90# per yard, about $3 - $5 Million per mile. That's a REAL quote from here in Jacksonville, within the last year, walking the route with several contractors.

Seems like a Water St. line would benefit the convention center too since it would provide an easy link between some of the hotels and Prime Osborne.

Yes, since I first proposed the idea in 1980, WATER ST., has been the star target of a Jacksonville, streetcar line. Newnan St. toward Springfield with a branch off Beaver to the stadium or Randolph would also work well. A route seldom looked at but probably still with track buried under it is, Water to Lee to Bay to Myrtle - THROUGH THE CENTER TUNNEL - to Forest - to Park and South to 5-Points/Park and King. BTW, the tunnel is the historic streetcar route, about all that is left of it, and the ONLY Subway in Florida.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

I am all for street cars.  Let's spend more effort on this and less on the $ky-high-way.

We need big, heavy transit systems running the longer distances from outlying areas feeding into nimble, light transit systems Downtown, not the other way around.  Street cars fit the bill for Downtown nicely.  The $ky-high-way "future ocean coral reef project" doesn't.

[JaxNative68]

with savannah's trolley running on river street, how much of that ridership is tourists.  I seriously doubt the locals ride it to bar hop on river street.  in fact the true locals try to stay away from river street unless it is job related.

[Lucasjj]

I am sure the majority of people riding it our tourists, since like you said, that is what River St is for. However, with as many people that frequent the rest of downton, tourists and locals, it could have high ridership throughout the historic area. When my mother's office was located downtown, she used to walk around to the stores and eateries that were in her area during her lunch. If a trolley serviced the downtown area, rather than just River St., it would provide both toursits and residents an easy way to get to the many different destinations downtown.

[JaxNative68]

When I lived there, all I did way walk, to class, to work, to entertainment, but the city is set up pedestrians.  The squares are so inviting that I think most people in downtown Savannak would prefer to walk than take a trolley.  I know I would.

[charlestondxman]

The city is set up for Savannah, as walking is a very big deal in the area, but there's inclines you have to climb to get down from River Street (which is actually above the Savannah River) to the Riverwalk, which is where a lot of the festivals in Savannah are.

Savannah is a very walkable city, as its 24 squares make it accessible. If Jax had something like that, tourism would shoot up.