Consequences of Growth for the Sake of Growth

[buckethead]

I heard an interesting take on Florida last week....basically our economic model was a Ponzi scheme...count on the new residents to pay for the existing ones

Welcome to the club.

Signed, the Fedral Budget of the United States of America.

[tufsu1]

We have all paid out more dollars in taxes each year for the last eighteen years to pay for the new infrastructure needed due to uncontrolled growth.  Lowering the rate hasn't lowered the taxes.

tax revenues have gone up.....because property values have gone up....and inflation

[tufsu1]

Here's a slightly different POV on Florida's budget problems... 

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090901/NEWS01/909010320/1086/State+sunk+by+tax+cap

So, if we were to shut the doors on grwoth (new development), how many people would be ok lifting the 3% "save our homes" prorperty tax increase cap?

[stjr]

Here's a slightly different POV on Florida's budget problems... 

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090901/NEWS01/909010320/1086/State+sunk+by+tax+cap

So, if we were to shut the doors on grwoth (new development), how many people would be ok lifting the 3% "save our homes" prorperty tax increase cap?

In 2007, Florida voters passed property tax reform that also limits the increase in the assessed value of non-homestead properties to 10 percent a year. The same constitutional amendment also doubled the homestead exemption to $50,000 for all but school taxes.

The Legislature this spring approved putting a new constitutional amendment to voters that would lower that cap to 5 percent.

Our tax structure is the result of "random" political posturing and pandering to voters, not a rationally constructed, diversified, fair structure to assure stable income over differing economic cycles.

Florida voters need to accept that you get what you pay for and that what we have now doesn't reliably pay for much.

A big reason is that we are stuck with too many out of state retired-to-Florida residents with a "no tax" at any expense attitude because they are not vested in this State.  We need to run some of them off so we can balance them better with those more vested in the quality of life in our state, especially with respect to education.

[Dog Walker]

You have a point about the retired population.  But, how do you then explain that the counties with the highest percentage of retirees have the best and the best funded school systems.  Broward County, Pinellas County and St. John's County all have high percentages of retirees and outstanding school systems.

It could be that because of the high percentage of retirees that there is actually lower demand for school places therefore more money per student than counties with younger populations.

Maybe we need MORE childless retirees and fewer young families with children in the state. (JOKE!)

[tufsu1]

Pinellas County schools are good....since when?

[JaxNative68]

Our pattern of unsustainable growth has finally caught up with us.  Its past time to embrace quality over quantity.  Unfortunately, we have leadership (i.e. city council budget cuts fiasco) in place that has no real clue on how to properly deal with this type of situation.

its how Peyton has figure the budget of Jacksonville

[JaxNative68]

"Duval County has no impact fees.  The impact fees in a couple of the surrounding counties are pitiful compared to the costs that the new homes bring to those counties."

Exactly right.  Unfortunately the developers are in the back pockets of our local leaders, their long time cronyism has lead to them not to have to pay the impact fees in full.  As this thread suggests, our local leaders are basing the economic planning of the area on growth not actual income and revenue.  I’ve said it many times on MJ, the developers need to start being held accountable for the infrastructure costs they create.

[JaxNative68]

NYC growth is in business and revenue created not in suburban sprawl created as in FL.

The tale of the tape in the first post of this thread, it says it all.

[stjr]

You have a point about the retired population.  But, how do you then explain that the counties with the highest percentage of retirees have the best and the best funded school systems.  Broward County, Pinellas County and St. John's County all have high percentages of retirees and outstanding school systems.

It could be that because of the high percentage of retirees that there is actually lower demand for school places therefore more money per student than counties with younger populations.

Maybe we need MORE childless retirees and fewer young families with children in the state. (JOKE!)

I would suggest under Florida's education system, the quality of a school system has more to do with the incomes of the children's families than with the schools themselves.

Today, state law requires equality of funding between all Florida counties on a per student basis.  And teachers are generally assigned fairly between schools.  But, due to Florida's overall underfunded, under-supported, and under-resourced schools, families must supplement much of what was a traditional school program that is now gutted with their own privately paid for programs.

Thus, those with means are able to supplement the schools' shortcomings with private lessons, tutoring, sports programs, performing arts and other cultural exposure, trips to museums and historical sights, computer learning and access, etc.  Meanwhile, poor families are more likely to not only be deprived of these opportunities, but to come from broken and/or dysfunctional families which is not conducive to educational success.

So, the relatively wealth counties you refer to would naturally have higher "quality" because they start with "better" prepared students.

When will the middle and upper income citizens recognize that all these extra costs for non-school programs amounts to a TAX INCREASE.  For a lot less, our schools could deliver these programs to ALL kids.  This is why we need to analyze the real numbers and costs and revise our tax system in conjunction with pointing out to Florida residents why it makes sense.

[Dog Walker]

TUfsu1,  If you think Pinallas County doesn't have good schools you have not experienced Duval County schools. LOL!

STJR,  You point is well taken and undoubtedly correct.