No Cars For JTA Employees Until Mass Transit Works.

[braeburn]

I wouldn't necessarily say "nowhere"...

The Federal Courthouse is right across the street from the Hemming Plaza Station, along with City Hall, the main Library, MOCA and a variety of local businesses and eateries that thrive in that entire 9 block area.

When the Riverplace station reopens, the Strand and Peninsula residents (along with the Crowne Plaza and Hampton Inn / Extended Stay hotels) will once again be able to access the Northbank of downtown via the Skyway without having to walk all the way to the Kings Avenue Station. The new Hilton hotel also happens to be right there at the Kings Avenue Station. It's also nice to be able to travel from the Northbank to the Southbank. There are good places to eat (Mortons, Charthouse, BB's) all within close walking distance from the stop, sightseeing at Friendship Fountain or MOSH, and ample businesses such as Baptist and the Wachovia tower.

While there are more than two stations, and the others seem to really have nowhere near as much use (yet), imagine if there were places to actually go to where the other stops/stations are. An extension to / from Riverside would be nice and is on my wishlist, right underneath changing and extending the hours of the Skyway to be more accomodating for recreation in the city and surrounding areas...

[CS Foltz]

I agree with your thoughts.......but it still does not go anywhere other than a very select few places. Riverside is supposed to be upgraded at a cost of 450K and still does nothing about extending to reach places that could be reached. So I keep coming back to a cost of 7 Million a year to operate a system with declining ridership and not increasing! So either extend or pull the plug..........one or the other! As is not a viable system!

[braeburn]

I share your thought process on the current state of the Skyway system. I take issue with the hours of operation, the lack of cleanliness and respect of the stations, and the fact that a lot of the stops really lead to nowhere. It has also become very unstable and unreliable.

I'd love a Riverside extension, and living downtown certainly want the Skyway to be a success. Where I live is somewhat "off the beaten path" downtown, so for me, the Skyway is a "connection" to the rest of the city.

[CS Foltz]

You must be one of the lucky ones that actually live in an area that makes Skyway usefull! I do agree that it should be possible to extend system but have questions regarding cost of expanding system. It would not be either cheap nor something that could be done overnight! No system should have been set in stone from the beginning with no options to extend or enhance! Severe lack of vision and planning tied the system up pretty much as it is now!

[tufsu1]

CS....that's the Riverplace Station....being rebuilt because of a fire....and the $450,000 is insurance money.

So it has nothiung to do with expaniding/upgrading the system!

[buckethead]

I did a short stint at The Strand. I found the skyway useful for going to the library, but if I wanted to take my girls to the Landing, it proved easier, and often quicker to walk.

In all, "going nowhere" really does serve as a valid description.

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1 ....I concur....Fire, Insurance etc etc! Still does not include expanding system and I understand that! My point is system was not put inplace with expansion in mind or included for the future!  That is a severe lack of vision and planning and who should take the blame for that? City.....FDOT? It was a waste to start something of the type of masstransit without a plan for the future.

[Ocklawaha]

CS, one only has to look at the dead end extensions east of the Central Station on Bay Street, the right of way north beyond FCJ, or the dead end stub track at the car barn in Brooklyn, to see it was indeed planned as a much larger system. In all it was supposed to come in at about 8 miles, reaching 5-Points, Shand's, Stadium and into San Marco. We quit at 2.5 miles, as the federal money for these "prototype" systems went dry. The other two cities finished theirs and we didn't.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

I'd love a Riverside extension, and living downtown certainly want the Skyway to be a success.

A "Riverside Extension" would be near Blue Cross/Fidelity, to the east of I-95.  So what trips will this generate?  Fidelity and Blue Cross employees going downtown to lunch and back?  That's hardly a justification for expansion.

And the prospects of future Brooklyn residents?  Just prospects like all that growth that JTA said was coming to Downtown when they built the existing system.  When it doesn't materialize or work out they will just parrot their current blame game excuses and say they expected more growth than whatever occurred, if there is any growth at all.

Connection to various bus routes?  Yea, I can see all the buses for half the city plowing through Riverside to connect to the $ky-high-way so, maybe every 20 or 30 minutes, riders can travel the last mile or so to Downtown.  Not likely or feasible.

It's all a pipe dream.

[Ocklawaha]

Not likely or feasible.

It's all a pipe dream.

Have you seen the drawings? Have you inspected the facilities? Have you talked with the vendors? Have contractors talked with you? Have you lived where intermodal transportation thrives? Have you followed the late Senator Robert Kennedy's advice for Americans?

"Some men see things as they are and say, 'Why'? I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?" Robert Kennedy.

Until you have, until ALL of us have, any concept of feasibility or pipe dreams, is pure speculation.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Not likely or feasible.

It's all a pipe dream.

Have you seen the drawings? Have you inspected the facilities? Have you talked with the vendors? Have contractors talked with you? Have you lived where intermodal transportation thrives? Until you have, until ALL of us have, any concept of feasibility or pipe dreams, is pure speculation.

Ock, are these the same transportation "experts", operators, and contractors who delivered the existing fiasco with a 90%+ ERROR rate on the EXISTING COMPLETED system?  They have already delivered pipe dreams, it's not speculation.  I really don't wish for second helpings of this dish.

I don't need to look at drawings.  I can see what is THERE NOW and see that adding more of the same isn't going to bring or add success.  I also have considered all the posts on MJ and public pronouncements by JTA and politicos on the matter and have yet to hear one thing that makes me think the expansion of the system won't result in more of the same, ongoing, failures.  As to artist renderings and architectural drawings, I learned long ago they don't have much to do with how things will actually perform in the real world.

And, please don't portray my opposition to the $ky-high-way as opposition to mass transit or intermodal.  I have always supported both.  In fact, I believe in them so much, that I cry a bucket of tears over the diversion from, and impairment of, these concepts in Northeast Florida because of the giant black eye the $ky-high-way has given such concepts (well, maybe more over my taxpayer dollars being wasted on such an obviously useless concept).

I will say it again:  The $ky-high-way is just too expensive, complicated, and non-user friendly to transport people over short (less than 3 or 4 mile) distances and it doesn't hold a candle to alternative modes that do a much better job in every respect, regardless of the application.

"Some men see things as they are and say, 'Why'? I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?" Robert Kennedy.

I DO dream of things that never were, such as the traffic that never was on the $ky-high-way, and I DO say "Why not?"!  Me and Robert K. would have hit it off real well.  

P.S.  I have both lived and traveled in numerous large American cities and willingly partook of their intermodal transit systems.  With the exception of an internal airport rail loop, no rail-type mode, excepting street cars, had the short runs (I am taking into account your expansion proposal) of the $ky-high-way.  Those rides always fell to a bus, taxi, street car or walking.

[CS Foltz]

I believe you Ock.....but lack of vision not to mention dollars are just not getting it! The two and one half miles the Skyway runs is ludicrous. You have stops on basically each end and that's it! This is costing 7 Million dollars a year to operate as is and seems more wastefull than it does productive. Less than 20 K riders  per year and that's what about 300 plus riders a day? I think we either extend or shut it down.....gotta be one or the other big guy! Its time to do something or get off the pot!

[buckethead]

For many reasons stated it makes no sense to shut it down.

IMO extention into Riverside/Avondale, San Marco and Jacksonville Municipal Stadium would bring the fiasco closer to sustaining itself.

It has been said that shutting it down would jeopardize future federal transit funding.

Perhaps an appeal to the feds for stimulus money for this bit of infastructure could prove fruitful.

Doesn't Gate supply concrete? No harm in a little quid pro quo.

[thelakelander]

I believe you Ock.....but lack of vision not to mention dollars are just not getting it! The two and one half miles the Skyway runs is ludicrous. You have stops on basically each end and that's it! This is costing 7 Million dollars a year to operate as is and seems more wastefull than it does productive. Less than 20 K riders  per year and that's what about 300 plus riders a day? I think we either extend or shut it down.....gotta be one or the other big guy! Its time to do something or get off the pot!

Where did you get those numbers from?  They are wrong.  According to the APTA, the skyway averaged 1,600 riders a weekday and 114,400 passengers between the months of January and March of this year.  A decline of 9.5% since the first quarter of 08'.

see page 15 in this document: http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2009_q1_ridership_APTA.pdf

By the way, this document has the ridership information for all US transit systems and modes.

[Doctor_K]

That's a projected 457,600 riders for the year.  Not bad considering how much of a 'failure' this thing is.  I bet that number is way higher than a lot of people expect.

And we've still not hit the football season proper.