Bus Rapid Transit to Destroy Downtown

[Metro Jacksonville]

Bus Rapid Transit to Destroy Downtown



As with any major plan, downtown will be the heart of Bus Rapid Transit. Unfortunately, if no real noise is made by the community, it will have devastating effects on everyone's desire to have a vibrant and pedestrian/retail friendly core.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/329

[avonjax]

I have concluded two things. Jacksonville is determined to destroy as much of it's architectural history as it possibly can, and that the people in power are, for lack of a better word, RETARDED. The  changes you have reported will RUIN downtown once and for all.....
It will destroy any hope for Bay Street to reach it's goal of becoming an entertainment zone.
The idea for Adams street is even more horrible....
How about the people who will be living in all the condos and apartments in that area?
The noise, exhaust and dangerous crossings will ruin an area that will soon be alive with residents.
And I can't wait to see how soon they will tear down the block on Forsyth and leave it a bombed out shell like the rest of LaVilla and the site for the courthouse.
I NOW REALIZE THESE PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A D**N ABOUT OUR CITY...

[jeh1980]

Say WHAT??? BRT to destroy our downtown?! I wouldn't count on it.

[Ocklawaha]

Photo is BRT in China, a scaled down, "cheaper" version then what I've experienced.
Yeah, I lived with it in Bogota... It's a beautiful addition to ANY downtown.

Ocklawaha

[archiphreak]

Ock, I don't want to live there.  Please say it isn't so!!   

[jeh1980]

Say WHAT??? BRT to destroy our downtown?! I wouldn't count on it.

I have concluded two things. Jacksonville is determined to destroy as much of it's architectural history as it possibly can, and that the people in power are, for lack of a better word, RETARDED. The  changes you have reported will RUIN downtown once and for all.....
It will destroy any hope for Bay Street to reach it's goal of becoming an entertainment zone.
The idea for Adams street is even more horrible....
How about the people who will be living in all the condos and apartments in that area?
The noise, exhaust and dangerous crossings will ruin an area that will soon be alive with residents.
And I can't wait to see how soon they will tear down the block on Forsyth and leave it a bombed out shell like the rest of LaVilla and the site for the courthouse.
I NOW REALIZE THESE PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A D**N ABOUT OUR CITY...

I may not know everything there is to know about BRT, but I personally don't believe it will destroy downtown (and for what?). Sometimes we all jump to conclusions about JTA. But I would tell you this. The only thing that can and will destroy our downtown is the hatred and unforgiveness we have towards the city, the Mayor, and JTA. So what if the city don't know the negatives of this BRT system. What right do we have to judge the city and JTA for their incompetence. We all due respect, but I think how we put claims on the city as wonderfully incompetent is absolute crap!!! I'm sorry, but its true.

[JaxNole]

Oh, wow.  No disrespect to you, jeh, but I have been a lifelong Jacksonville resident and the years Mayor Peyton has been in office have some of the most unpleasant.

For one, he pledged to lead and operate the city as a business.  Were Jacksonville a business, we would have had major restructurings prior to filing for bankruptcy.

The Better Jacksonville Plan, which surprisingly garnered enough voter support under Mayor Delaney, enacted a $0.005 sales tax increase in a city averse to taxes.  The BJP provided infrastructure improvements and many remarkable public works projects, including the courthouse.  Six years after the BJP approval, Delaney's successor has little to show for the tens of millions spent on the project other than a fenced off somewhat grassy lot.

JTA needs no more discussion as I could not post with as much thought and quality that exists on this forum.

Mayor Peyton is highly inaccessible to his constituents, hiding behind Ms. Wiles who often comes across as nonsensical and speaks as if Paula Abdul composes his speeches.

The administration has developed a penchant for waste and the surplus Mayor Delaney left behind was squandered.  I'm not implying anything; only stating the vast difference between balance sheets once Delaney departed for UNF.

There's more, but it's already been said and discussed.

Anyone want to build a giant hot dog stand on a downtown bridge?

[jeh1980]

Oh, wow.  No disrespect to you, jeh, but I have been a lifelong Jacksonville resident and the years Mayor Peyton has been in office have some of the most unpleasant.

For one, he pledged to lead and operate the city as a business.  Were Jacksonville a business, we would have had major restructurings prior to filing for bankruptcy.

The Better Jacksonville Plan, which surprisingly garnered enough voter support under Mayor Delaney, enacted a $0.005 sales tax increase in a city averse to taxes.  The BJP provided infrastructure improvements and many remarkable public works projects, including the courthouse.  Six years after the BJP approval, Delaney's successor has little to show for the tens of millions spent on the project other than a fenced off somewhat grassy lot.

JTA needs no more discussion as I could not post with as much thought and quality that exists on this forum.

Mayor Peyton is highly inaccessible to his constituents, hiding behind Ms. Wiles who often comes across as nonsensical and speaks as if Paula Abdul composes his speeches.

The administration has developed a penchant for waste and the surplus Mayor Delaney left behind was squandered.  I'm not implying anything; only stating the vast difference between balance sheets once Delaney departed for UNF.

There's more, but it's already been said and discussed.

Anyone want to build a giant hot dog stand on a downtown bridge?

No offense taken, and thank you . I have nothing against Mayor Payton. But I do admit that he needs to do a better job in running the city like he should be...after all, we were the ones who put Mayor Peyton back in the office for the 2nd term. He may not be the best mayor for the job and he sometimes don't know any better (I guess I would include Ms. Wiles in the mix, too), but despite of the all of the messed up decisions the Mayor and the city made, I rather just forgive and move on. Give them some time...or in this case give them some help! They all might need it.  

Wait a minute !!! Did anybody ever called or e-mailed the Mayor's office to offer him some sound advice. I did! Why not you?   

[JaxNole]

I respect your opinions so while keeping them in mind, I would like to ask others what their experiences have been when they have called, written or e-mailed the Mayor's office with positive suggestions and what the outcome was.  I may not be privy to his stellar civil service record, impeccable negotiating skills or leadership achievements. 

[thelakelander]

I've had a lot of contact with the Mayor's Office since we started this site.  I also was a member a downtown development committee started by Suzanne Jenkins last year.  There's been several suggestions made over the last few years.  Some have been verbally accepted and others have been ignored.

The Main Street Pocket Park stands out the most, since we aggressively tried to stop it for over a year before construction broke ground.  Now that its complete, its everything we said it would be.

On the other hand, we railed against JTA's Downtown BRT plans for Adams Street when the JEDC and DVI were silent on the issue.  While officials were in awe of new hybrid buses being paraded around, we confronted JTA at public hearings whenever the opportunity presented itself.  We also used this site to show what transit malls in downtowns across America really look like and what the public in those cities thought about them.  Now DVI and JEDC have come out against the plan and its now being reconsidered.

So to make a long story short, you win some, you lose some, but if you don't come out and say something from the start, then all things will remain status quo.

[JaxNole]

Lake, you and others have demonstrated persistence and willingness to steer the city in a more progressive direction and thoroughly justify your recommendations.  What accomplishments or milestones do you feel can realistically be achieved in one, five and 20 years as a result of everyone's efforts?

[thelakelander]

In the short term, fixing the "little" things that have a negative impact on downtown.  These would include directional signage for both pedestrians and vehicles, better street lighting and improved public maintenance to enhance the image of the core.  Other short term goals that are reachable include eliminating BRT from Adams, Bay and Forsyth as well as getting the city to eventually sell off many of its downtown holdings, like the Synder Memorial Church, to the public sector and using those funds to upgrade public infrastructure like Friendship Fountain.

Long term (5 - 20 years), the current BRT plan being slightly altered to include rail in certain areas, changing the face of Jacksonville, as we know it today.  Also, the "little things" conducted in the short term, such as signage and urban friendly zoning, will result in private development responding with positive infill in the long term.

I'm sure there are a lot more things, but I'm quickly typing off the top of my head.

[Ocklawaha]

While I certainly can't answer for Lake, I can tell you about what is possible within the Mass Transit World.

1. year: We could push some changes on JTA's BRT plan. Spread it to more places with less high dollar ideas
maybe using the Las Vegas model. In other words, BRT could evolve from an elevated freeway system to a reasonable HOV or exclusive lane trunk on the Arlington Expressway, and shift to more radial routes in the balance of the City. Duplication of rail should be avioded at all costs. Ground could be broken on a revised Transportation Center at Union Station.

5. years: We could see the opening of the first leg of a downtown streetcar line. Opening of some of the BRT routes without the exclusive expressways. Their could be people on the ground to kick off the Commuter Rail System, and get it moving into construction. Union Station could be a sea of cranes and work. Skyway is finally moving to the finish line. Maybe even Francis Lytle is undergoing prep for salvation as a future Skyway and transit-megga-stop.

20. years: downtown streetcars or Light Rail is up and running, Skyway complete, Commuter Rail is expanding, BRT is feeding from previously unthinkable routes, Union Station is UNION STATION AGAIN, Jacksonville has introduced the Trolley-Bus to Florida's urban core (with or without wire). Amtrak is now the 2Nd largest intercity carrier of passengers - changed - splintered - expanded many times.

Ocklawaha