Lighting Laura Street Plan Moves Forward

Seraphs · August 13, 2009, 10:14:02 PM

well, small baby steps, but at least in the right direction.

JeffreyS · August 13, 2009, 11:04:05 PM

it is a nice step many of our visitors go to the landing and they will see this street as a representation of our downtown.

CS Foltz · August 14, 2009, 05:32:20 AM

Has anyone thought about who is paying for this? I don't mean the lights, which I know we are, but the electricity to power ? I have no problem with enhanceing downtown, but it would seem to me that we could do it in a manner that does not cost the public money on a regular basis. Unless the Mayor is paying for it out of his pocket in which case.....go Johnny!

thelakelander · August 14, 2009, 06:20:54 AM

Isn't it a city responsibility to adequately light it's streets? Why is it seen as a problem for the front door of the city (downtown core) but not for streets like Blanding, Edgewood, Beach or Kernan?

Jerry Moran · August 14, 2009, 06:38:41 AM

Text of my email to Paul Crawford 08/14

Paul,

Again, I and other downtown merchants need your assurance that as part of the Laura Street Improvement Project, benches will not be placed on Laura Street, at least between Adams and Monroe. Benches are indicated on your Laura Street Conceptual Development Plan and the Downtown Development Review Board Conceptual / Final Review for Application 2009-13. You have told me in the past that no benches would be installed. Please advise. Thank you.

Jerry Moran
Chef & Owner
La Cena Ristorante
211 N Laura St.

We do not want vagrants asserting their civil rights by loitering on the benches that will be placed directly in front of our businesses.

zoo · August 14, 2009, 07:41:06 AM

QuoteHas anyone thought about who is paying for this? I don't mean the lights, which I know we are, but the electricity to power ? I have no problem with enhanceing downtown, but it would seem to me that we could do it in a manner that does not cost the public money on a regular basis. Unless the Mayor is paying for it out of his pocket in which case.....go Johnny!

This is exactly the mentality that has kept Jacksonville feeling like "Cowford" compared to other major metropolitan cities of comparable size. I want the money in the city spent wisely, too, and it is questionable our leadership has that capability.

But on the flip side, I don't want to live in a City that is a time warp backwards from the rest of the U.S., and becoming more so each year, because it's population is averse to change. Investment in the quality of life assets of the City, and especially those related to the long-neglected and under-funded urban core, is critical to the future success of the entire NEFL region.

Jerry Moran · August 14, 2009, 02:02:05 PM

Paul Crawford replies:

Ultimately, I believe it would be healthy for our downtown to have benches on which its citizens and visitors can sit. However, I agree with you; we are not at that point and I am not sure how long it will take us to get to that point. With this being said, there will not be benches installed as part of the Laura Street Improvements. There will need to be strategic plan for the placement of benches in downtown before installation should occur and I hope to have all of the property owners and tenants included in such discussions.

Paul R. Crawford
Deputy Executive Director
Jacksonville Economic Development Commission

I am glad someone in city government finally "gets it".

Captain Zissou · August 14, 2009, 02:25:30 PM

Come on CS Foltz, seriously?? I'm sorry you have to pay for your own accent lighting for your palm trees in Deercreek, Deerwood, Sawgrass, or wherever, but think for a second. You pay for your lighting because it's in your yard and you own it. This will light an area that the whole city will use all the time for pennies a day.....Well worth it. Pretend like the city of Jacksonville just got a new espresso maker or something. This is a benefit to all of us and will make OUR downtown much more enjoyable.

CS Foltz · August 15, 2009, 07:21:00 PM

Well I live in Linkside at Bay Meadows.....we have entry lights front and rear, street lights which the HOA paid for and some lights which are being referb'd for a common area by volunteers. HOA pays for all electricity on a monthly basis for all of the lights.....not the city. Lighting on Laura Street is secondary to having an infrastructure in the City proper. Lights are a welcome edition but I have to ask who is paying for them? The City or the business's downtown? Since I am kinda new to this forum thought that I would ask! If the City is in such financial straits, is up lighting an expenditure that enhances downtown or are there other more important things which should take lead to enhance downtown! Such as parking or a place to procure food stuffs? Entertainment is third level by my standards.....and with no parking available or meters which only run for an hour there are other issue's that need to addressed first!

tufsu1 · August 15, 2009, 07:37:27 PM

Jerry....benches are good for cities....dom you get it?

The way to address what I assume is your concern is to put a metal armrest (or something similar) on the bench separating the seats.....that negates the ability to lay down.

JeffreyS · August 15, 2009, 08:00:48 PM

CS IMO Lighting is the most urgent cost effective way to enhance any urban area.

thelakelander · August 15, 2009, 09:09:24 PM

Quote from: CS Foltz on August 15, 2009, 07:21:00 PM
Well I live in Linkside at Bay Meadows.....we have entry lights front and rear, street lights which the HOA paid for and some lights which are being referb'd for a common area by volunteers. HOA pays for all electricity on a monthly basis for all of the lights.....not the city. Lighting on Laura Street is secondary to having an infrastructure in the City proper. Lights are a welcome edition but I have to ask who is paying for them? The City or the business's downtown? Since I am kinda new to this forum thought that I would ask! If the City is in such financial straits, is up lighting an expenditure that enhances downtown or are there other more important things which should take lead to enhance downtown! Such as parking or a place to procure food stuffs? Entertainment is third level by my standards.....and with no parking available or meters which only run for an hour there are other issue's that need to addressed first!

Just a question. Does your association pay for the lights on Baymeadows? If not, how is lighting Baymeadows any different from lighting Laura Street?

CS Foltz · August 16, 2009, 08:09:50 AM

HOA's are responcible for the individual Home Owners in a specific area. COJ is responcible for lighting streets and I have no problem with lighting of streets....proven deterent for crime to take place. My issue is with the up lighting of individual bldgs rather than a post light for an area. I have no issue with lighting but think that there are more important things to be addressed rather than lighting of a business front. Parking for instance or maybe a comprehensive plan to bring downtown up to spec for a City like ours. I have issue's with the current Administations lack of any comprehensive organized plan to revitilize downtown,improve traffice flow and add services to those who wish to live downtown. Condo's and high dollar aptartment complexes are just great for the tax base but who wants to live somewhere when you have to drive 10 miles or better to get to a grocery store? So I am not against lighting on Laura Street....I am against a bandaid on a substandard situation. I do not care for lip service, which are the lights,when there are issue's of higher importance! One street is a start but how long has it taken to get this far? Would the forum agree this is not the only problem in downtown?

thelakelander · August 16, 2009, 08:40:21 AM

Quote from: CS Foltz on August 16, 2009, 08:09:50 AM
HOA's are responcible for the individual Home Owners in a specific area. COJ is responcible for lighting streets and I have no problem with lighting of streets....proven deterent for crime to take place. My issue is with the up lighting of individual bldgs rather than a post light for an area. I have no issue with lighting but think that there are more important things to be addressed rather than lighting of a business front.

Understood. However, I don't believe this plan calls for uplighting private buildings with public money. When Metro Jacksonville made a presentation on this project back in 2006, the idea was proposed as a public private partnership. Anything involving privately owned poperty (such as building uplighting) would have been the responsibility of the private sector.

QuoteParking for instance or maybe a comprehensive plan to bring downtown up to spec for a City like ours.

I agree. However, I believe that ungrading the streetscape and lighting along it are improvements that help bring downtown up to spec. Also, notice the new digital parking meters downtown? That was also a part of the original presentation made to Suzanne Jenkins' Downtown Action Committee.

QuoteI have issue's with the current Administations lack of any comprehensive organized plan to revitilize downtown,improve traffice flow and add services to those who wish to live downtown. Condo's and high dollar aptartment complexes are just great for the tax base but who wants to live somewhere when you have to drive 10 miles or better to get to a grocery store?

I have an issue with many of the decisions being made by leadership, but there are a couple of grocery stores in place for urban residents. Downtown has had a Winn-Dixie for decades and the Publix in Five Points isn't that far away. Also, the Uptown Market, on Main Street, is scheduled to open next month. So, its no Manhattan, but there are grocery options available for urban residents that don't require drives into the burbs.

QuoteSo I am not against lighting on Laura Street....I am against a bandaid on a substandard situation. I do not care for lip service, which are the lights,when there are issue's of higher importance! One street is a start but how long has it taken to get this far? Would the forum agree this is not the only problem in downtown?

I agree that improving Laura isn't the only problem downtown. Downtown's main problem is a complete lack of connectivity which makes it difficult to establish walkability and vibrancy. Improving Laura (less than $3 million) is one of many things that need to be done to enhance downtown. Now the one I really don't agree with is spending $29 million on Metropolitan Park.

CS Foltz · August 16, 2009, 09:32:49 AM

I have no problem with private concerns adding up lighting to their particular business. If public dollars were being used then yes ....that would be of concern. I concur with the absence of transportation or as you put it "connectivity" from point A to point B. There isn't any and the current Administration does not appear to have any plans that are viable or cost effective. This stems from a lack of vision or as I like to say "The 5 P's"! That translates into "Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance"! There is nothing at all being considered and nothing that has had any input from those who will be funding whatever takes place. Streetscape should be a viable cost effective option with maybe each area having something that is cohesive but different for each designated area. This would indicate which area one was in and relieve the signage needed, but that's just my take. Ock has the right idea as to a trolley system that would serve connectivity but that would also take fixed points at either end or ends or a loop system. Skyway type system would combine better overall coverage with least amount of traffic impact.....but that's just my take!