Bay Street Station and Streetcars coming downtown?

thelakelander · August 04, 2009, 02:42:41 PM

My guess is its an oversight and for everyone to not get their hopes up. This project is dead or at least indefinitely delayed.

reednavy · August 04, 2009, 03:16:43 PM

Ock, that building is hardly modern. It is a giant rectangle with glass railings and isn't on the river, it is on the north side of the Hart Bridge ramp by Met Park.

We don't need a a plain box as our tallest anyways, it was proposed at 700ft, bleh! If this were put beside the Jacksonville Center or Wachovia Tower, then it'd look better, but still.

Nice to also see the amenities deck is facing north, so it is shaded most of the day and w/o a river view, who'd want that?

thelakelander · August 04, 2009, 03:40:26 PM

This building is basically a carbon copy of a tower constructed in DT Miami during the recent real estate boom.

http://www.50biscaynemiami.com/

Steve · August 04, 2009, 05:36:00 PM

Ocklawaha · August 04, 2009, 06:50:17 PM

Bet you turn blue before we see dirt move!

reednavy, I'd still call the thing modern or contemporary, but I'm with you on the rather blah look. As I said, pick any building in Panama City and you've got it. I'd still love to see either St. James or the St. John go forward and wouldn't care which is first. Right now we need the influx of jobs, construction and business activity downtown.
I would love to see a model of the skyline with the current buildings and this odd-man-out way off to the East, for certain it would look very odd.

Wonder how much more new development the new Courthouse might spur? Wonder if it will generate enough dust to kick off Bay Street Station, JTA, Ambassador, or any others?

OCKLAWAHA

exnewsman · August 04, 2009, 07:14:20 PM

QuoteWonder how much more new development the new Courthouse might spur? Wonder if it will generate enough dust to kick off Bay Street Station, JTA, Ambassador, or any others?

OCKLAWAHA

According to Carlton Jones - Bay St Station is still moving forward. They had some contaminates to clear on the site for which they got a grant to do. Also - Hallmark Partners is expecting to start construction at 200 Riverside before the end of the year. Their financing is in place and working out somefinal details.

Ocklawaha · August 04, 2009, 08:59:53 PM

I hope your right, I just haven't seen any action on the site and have started wondering if the partners left town. Meanwhile the City has done NOTHING to push the streetcar plan. Carlton is a nice guy, and I wish him the best.

OCKLAWAHA

Keith-N-Jax · August 04, 2009, 09:50:56 PM

Sounds like good news. Hope it goes through.

Jason · August 05, 2009, 09:17:46 AM

Here you go Ock. This are some very old images I put together when the renderings were first released.

It would look pretty out of place without the Shipyards to compliment it. But if it broke ground I would still be ecstatic.

With the Shipyards in the foreground...

Ocklawaha · August 05, 2009, 09:22:15 AM

Thanks Jason!

Well it would look way lop-sided, and the gap where the Shipyards was to be would be such a hole in the City that perhaps it would become a vortex, pulling in other buildings. Either way I like the idea of another grand building, just wish it was more downtown. Time will tell, I'm sure NOT placing any bets.

OCKLAWAHA

Captain Zissou · August 05, 2009, 09:27:09 AM

Those last two images are amazing. I remember when Berkman and the Shipyards were first introduced (yes, the buzz for both projects started at about the same time, can you believe that?), they were calling Bay Street the "billion dollar mile". Those were the days.

Jason · August 05, 2009, 09:31:54 AM

I remember that too Captain. The Shipyards has to be the single greatest boondoggle within the last 10 years. At least the Courthouse is acually being built now.

Still, good news that Bay Street Station and Hallmark appear to be moving forward. When all of the cranes in the LaVilla/Brooklyn area as well as Wolfson's/Baptist go up, that should easily enhance the perception that Jax has seen the end of the recession. Passers by on the I95 corridor will get an eyefull of progress.

brainstormer · August 05, 2009, 09:57:20 AM

If Bay Street Station does actually break ground, how will this affect the possibility of moving the convention center? I'm hoping there isn't some unknown written clause somewhere that promises to keep the convention center where it is. Would the project still move forward if it was connected to a new Prime Osborn Transit Center and not the convention center? Don't you think we should get the developers to encourage Amtrak to move downtown as well? Wouldn't now be a great time to make a formal plan for this area so everyone can move forward with a vision in place? The city, JTA, Bay Street developers and Amtrak should all be on the same page, or we are going to end up with a half built development that never amounts to anything and once again won't be connected to anything else in downtown.

If the Bay Street developers are serious about including the skyway as an intricate part of their building, then we should go with that and start work on some extensions so that we can connect the rest of downtown to this massive development. Office workers should be able to take the skyway from Bay SS to the afternoon Suns game, RAM attendees should be able to get to Bay SS for lunch, Berkman Plaza residents should be able to go to Bay SS to shop, FCCJ students should be able to catch a movie after class. Do you start to see what I see? Pretty soon we are all connected by fixed transit and every little pocket of development feeds upon all the others. The anchors are in, the infill happens along the way and pretty soon, we are no longer jealous of Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Pretty soon we are that Bold New City!

Perhaps it is time we stop trying to convince the rednecks that the city budget doesn't pay for our school system, and move on! Let's halt the shrinking tax base in the urban core. We don't have to build a new freeway to get to it, water and sewer lines are already laid, the most expensive part of a fixed mass transit system is already in place. What are we waiting for?

Captain Zissou · August 05, 2009, 10:08:27 AM

^ +1

I had never thought about that before. For ONCE, we already have the Skyway in place, we just need the development to go with it. Lets be honest, the Convention Center isn't a real destination. On the off chance that the car show or something that doesn't go to the Hyatt ends up at the Convention Center, maybe a few people use the skyway to get there. Theres already an absolutely useless stop right by those grass fields in front of the (Optimus) Prime Osborn. Let's build this yesterday and begin to build up downtown.

Ocklawaha · August 05, 2009, 10:23:35 AM

Quote from: brainstormer on August 05, 2009, 09:57:20 AM
If Bay Street Station does actually break ground, how will this affect the possibility of moving the convention center? I'm hoping there isn't some unknown written clause somewhere that promises to keep the convention center where it is. Would the project still move forward if it was connected to a new Prime Osborn Transit Center and not the convention center? Don't you think we should get the developers to encourage Amtrak to move downtown as well? Wouldn't now be a great time to make a formal plan for this area so everyone can move forward with a vision in place? The city, JTA, Bay Street developers and Amtrak should all be on the same page, or we are going to end up with a half built development that never amounts to anything and once again won't be connected to anything else in downtown.

If the Bay Street developers are serious about including the skyway as an intricate part of their building, then we should go with that and start work on some extensions so that we can connect the rest of downtown to this massive development. Office workers should be able to take the skyway from Bay SS to the afternoon Suns game, RAM attendees should be able to get to Bay SS for lunch, Berkman Plaza residents should be able to go to Bay SS to shop, FCCJ students should be able to catch a movie after class. Do you start to see what I see? Pretty soon we are all connected by fixed transit and every little pocket of development feeds upon all the others. The anchors are in, the infill happens along the way and pretty soon, we are no longer jealous of Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Pretty soon we are that Bold New City!

Perhaps it is time we stop trying to convince the rednecks that the city budget doesn't pay for our school system, and move on! Let's halt the shrinking tax base in the urban core. We don't have to build a new freeway to get to it, water and sewer lines are already laid, the most expensive part of a fixed mass transit system is already in place. What are we waiting for?

For a certainty, if there IS an unknown written clause to keep the Convention Center in the middle of Florida's only natural transportation center, it will effect the latter to such an extent so as never to realize it's true economic potential.

The developers should certainly pull Amtrak into their plans, it would cost them nothing and they would have huge dividends to enjoy the benefits of an intermodal center. Transportation, well planned and built, would be a stronger magnet for development then any convention center. Good transit can string development through a city and create miles of hot spots and billions in new start construction.

Bay Street Station also embraces the streetcar system, in fact to such an extent that they have even suggested building their own if needs be.

Your conclusions on what this development and good FINISHED mass transit (SKYWAY and STREETCAR) could do downtown is something Lakelander, Lunican, Stephendare and Myself have been trying to pound in for several years. Still there are some who flatly refuse to use vision, selfishly thinking every improvement a personal tax liability to themselves. Jacksonville, speak: "The cup is half empty - the cup is half empty - the cup is half empty..."

OCKLAWAHA