first baptist featured on morons.com

[stephendare]

http://beta.morons.org/tally-ho/article/read/1689

its been a while since this thread got started, but I wonder how much First Baptist contributed to the world tensions and the general apocalyptic nature of global politics when Dr. Jerry Vines called Muhamed a 'Demon possessed pedophile".

[midnightblackrx]

This sort of makes me wonder who is the vile one.  What happened to teaching humility and decency? Come on reverend...what a terrible example you've set for your congregation. Shame on you.

[adamh0903]

When Vines took over the Baptist Convention, the entire state of Texas bolted from the southern Baptist Denomination on the grounds that it had become TOO conservative.

Thats not true, There was a sect of Texas southern baptist that became part of the Baptist General Convention of Texas which is actually part of the CBF and SBC, The rest of the southern baptist became part of the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention. The largest Southern Baptist Theological Seminary on the Planet is located  in Forth Worth, Texas, and another large seminary is in Dallas, not to mention Criswell College. I dont go to downtown Jax, never have, parents didnt go. I do still go to church, there are some good churches out there.

[Ocklawaha]

Last time I checked the Baptist Church still taught to "hate the sin but love the sinner," For those who take the scriptures as fact without flaw, their teaching is often quite deep and thoughful. However, when the Bible labels something as wrong or as a sin, so will the Baptist Church, sadly, this is often taken as a personal attack from the pastor, rather then the source.

Dr. Vines was entitled to his opinion of Mohamad, as are the rest of us for better or worse...

Mohamad called all of the Jews and Christians "People of the Book", until he gained enough military power, then changed that to "Devils".

The Mormon Church, says that all other churches are wrong, their leaders corrupt, they have a form of godlyness and draw near with their lips but are far from him with thier hearts.

The Watchtower claims that the prophets of old appeared and made a survey of all churches, finding that only the Jehovahs Witnesses were the keepers of truth. They even built an estate for the "prophets" in Southern California, which their leader lived in (to keep it) for the angelic beings.

The Catholics, though liberal in this Country, haven't given an inch in the rest of the World, they still teach, "On CHURCH, one faith, one baptism" meaning of course their own. They alone are the keepers of all truth, and light, Gods representatives on Earth, and have the dogma to back it up.

Bottom line as I see it, we spend a great deal of time on these forum pages crying over the sins, real and imagined of FBC Jacksonville. Then spin on a dime and whine over why there isn't more to our downtown urban core. Wake up folks, here we have a "club Baptist" that is active almost every day of the week, and it brings 10-20,000 people downtown 1-5 times a week. It's as good as having a professional basketball team playing nearly every night 365. Perhaps we should see these folks as customers for Transit, Restaurants, and Retail, rather then ranting on about their personal beliefs.

Ocklawaha

[fsujax]

Ock, I have been saying this for at least two years now. At least someone out there agrees with me. Thanks.

[thelakelander]

Bottom line as I see it, we spend a great deal of time on these forum pages crying over the sins, real and imagined of FBC Jacksonville. Then spin on a dime and whine over why there isn't more to our downtown urban core. Wake up folks, here we have a "club Baptist" that is active almost every day of the week, and it brings 10-20,000 people downtown 1-5 times a week. It's as good as having a professional basketball team playing nearly every night 365. Perhaps we should see these folks as customers for Transit, Restaurants, and Retail, rather then ranting on about their personal beliefs.

Right on.  We need to take advantage of the crowds the downtown churches bring into the core.

[copperfiend]

But then they would have to leave the parking garage.

[Ocklawaha]

As a "Preachers Kid" (yes, me too Stephendare) I've never met a Baptist or Methodist yet that didn't leave that parking lot for the tradtional "Sunday Dinner".  

Ocklawaha

[fsujax]

Trust me there are many folks who go to that church (me) that do try and support downtown business as much as possible and encourage others to do the same.....so yes, some of us do leave the garages.

[jbm32206]

Bottom line as I see it, we spend a great deal of time on these forum pages crying over the sins, real and imagined of FBC Jacksonville. Then spin on a dime and whine over why there isn't more to our downtown urban core. Wake up folks, here we have a "club Baptist" that is active almost every day of the week, and it brings 10-20,000 people downtown 1-5 times a week. It's as good as having a professional basketball team playing nearly every night 365. Perhaps we should see these folks as customers for Transit, Restaurants, and Retail, rather then ranting on about their personal beliefs.

The problem as I see it, you'll see the throngs of people coming into downtown to FBC, but you'll also see them heading right out....they don't seem to hang around and shop downtown, I don't see them heading to the Landing...so they're really not pouring money into the businesses down there. They come, they go and block off streets in the process.

[jbm32206]

And not just FBC either, dont forget that immaculate conception, Bethel Baptist, Shiloh and several other large churches are also downtown.

The reasons people don't dine downtown during the day has nothing to do with some inherent churchiness and everything to do with making the downtown as forbidding as possible through administrative design to the end user.

I totally agree, and my comment wasn't intended as an insult to FBC....and you're quite right about the other large churches...you see them come and go as well.

Personally, if downtown had more to offer, then the visitors would likely spend more time (and money) there. We need more family-friendly places to eat...and on Sundays, there's basically nothing.

[Charleston native]

Wow, Ock, your post was dead on. Indeed, the FBC up here in Columbia is not being utilized either as a source of boosting downtown restaurants and shopping, which is a true shame, considering its size. While it's not as big as Jax's FBC, its presence and economic impact would help downtown businesses if people actually catered to it.

Jax's FBC is impressive, and once my wife and I (oh yeah, AND MY NEWBORN SON!!   ) move down there, that is one of the churches we'd like to check out. Since it brings such a large population consistently to the urban core, I would suggest not concentrating on bashing the pastor's preaching.

Stephen, again we must disagree. The preacher is entitled to preach his opinion because in seminary, he actually studied things like that.

[thelakelander]

oh yeah, AND MY NEWBORN SON!!

Congrats!!!

[Charleston native]

Thanks, Stephen! I think it is some Divine Providence that is allowing me to post here, as the call to make Jax my home seems as loud as it always has been...so, it is good to be seeing you guys here as well. Also, thanks to you and Lake for the congrats on our new baby. Needless to say, sleep has become a precious commodity. Things will get better though.

Back to topic: if you talk to some pastors, Stephen, there are some who study other religions as part of their theology curriculum. True, the core of seminary graduates is Christian theology, but pastors will study aspects of other religions as a means to demonstrate the clear arguments against them. As for Mohammed, the fact is that he was a pedophile. The Quran, among other scholarly research, details that he took a 6-year-old girl as a wife. Sorry, it is what it is. As far as being demon possessed, well that may be over the top...however, what would you consider being the motivation for an individual that decides to create a religion that enslaves women, persecutes other religions, and violently kills people for their refusal to submit to Islam? Sounds a little evil to me...

[Ocklawaha]

True, the core of seminary graduates is Christian theology, but pastors will study aspects of other religions as a means to demonstrate the clear arguments against them. As for Mohammad, the fact is that he was a pedophile. The Quran, among other scholarly research, details that he took a 6-year-old girl as a wife. Sorry, it is what it is. As far as being demon possessed, well that may be over the top...however, what would you consider being the motivation for an individual that decides to create a religion that enslaves women, persecutes other religions, and violently kills people for their refusal to submit to Islam? Sounds a little evil to me...

Well said Charleston, and add another Congratulations on the new addition to your family.
I am one of those graduates that made Christian Apologetics into a major. Let me say that I agree with you. In dealing with other religions or history one must take into account the morals and standards of the time and place in question. Example, can we fault all Southerners or 1861-65, as African American hating bigots? We simply cannot hold them to today's moral standards. Taking a 6 year old child as a wife is extreme, on the surface if would appear as the action of a pedophile. But we must consider the customs. Was the 6 year old promised to him as a Child? Was the marriage consummated at that age? Women were/still are considered property in the Mid-East, arranged marriages are common. The Virgin Mary was probably somewhere around 13 or 14 when Jesus came into the World, by the same measure would we label the Holy Spirit the same way?
As for murder of anyone with another belief. The Greeks were pretty good at that themselves when they took the Holy Land prior to the Jewish revolts. Rome just continued the tradition and refined it with Lions, Tigers, Crosses and swords. By the time of the Crusades, the Church in Rome called for taking out all of the Mideastern peoples in order to restore Christ to Jerusalem. The Moslem's had good teachers!

In order to argue the evils of one religion against another, or one people against another, one must look at the historical record. In bible times anyone could be a "prophet", but to make one single mistake, was to lose ones life to execution. So the prophets were deadly correct, or simply dead. In this respect, one can line up the words of Mohammad and the words of Christ, go back to the historical record. Does the "Word" square with the record? Have the scriptures been flexible enough to fit every age? It is that basis in which Islam will ultimately live or fall.

For Christians the question to ask is "Who is Jesus to you". Never get into the side stuff such as "do you drink", "do you salute the flag". "did you prophet have many wives"? For the Worldly, the question will be how does this square with history and todays life style. Either way, in my mind Islam comes up wanting.  

Ocklawaha