Sheriff to fire officer

BridgeTroll · July 12, 2009, 09:51:46 AM

Why do you assume these reviews are biased? Apparently it was not biased in this case as the officer was dismissed. Tufsu... do they let unbiased outside entities review disciplinary actions where you work? Every place I have ever worked these reviews are carried out by the agency or company review procedures.

tufsu1 · July 12, 2009, 01:04:03 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 12, 2009, 09:51:46 AM
Why do you assume these reviews are biased? Apparently it was not biased in this case as the officer was dismissed. Tufsu... do they let unbiased outside entities review disciplinary actions where you work? Every place I have ever worked these reviews are carried out by the agency or company review procedures.

ok...I take it back...what I meant was it makes the review often "appear" to be biased

BridgeTroll · July 12, 2009, 01:10:39 PM

I will make a huge assumption here... I assume after the review process is completed that process can be reviewed by the public. I also assume the FOP will review the process also.

OK... two assumptions...

macbeth25 · July 12, 2009, 03:16:31 PM

I think I've heard of some sort of civilian review board in Duval County regarding the Sheriff's office but I'm not sure. If there is one, does anyone know how to get on it? Not me, I don't live in Duval County.

NotNow · July 12, 2009, 08:31:57 PM

There is no civilian review board in Duval County. Federal law enforcement agencies can not enforce state and local laws.

NotNow · July 12, 2009, 08:47:26 PM

StephanDare!: "In a relatively short time, what was basically created to functon in the same manner as a private security guard has morphed into a lethal force that actively criticizes and condemns the very courts and process they are supposed to be serving."

Law Enforcement Officers have existed in America since the 1600's. The enforcement of the laws of the state, and municiple ordinances in incorporated towns and cities is the duty of the modern law enforcement officer. Throughout the United States, Officers are empowered to use that force which is necessary to enforce the laws and apprehend criminal suspects. Law Enforcement does not "serve" a court. They do exactly what their particular state law directs them to do.

Every civilized country in the world uses a similar system, although the American model of local law enforcement with checks and balances, with all of its imperfections, seems to me to be the best.

NotNow · July 12, 2009, 09:23:07 PM

Just for reference, see this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States

I think that you will find that everything that I posted is factual (except of course, my personal preference for the American system, that is opinion).

This is for everyone except StephanDare!, because we are not engaging each other in conversation.

NotNow · July 12, 2009, 09:52:32 PM

The link is titled "law enforcement in the United States", as opposed to your link titled "Police". Why you would disregard the establishment of Sheriff's Offices in the 1600's is a mystery to me. The actions of both in regard to law enforcement are the same. I am not sure what the basis of your argument is whether we use the establishment of the New York City Sheriff's Office in 1626 or the establishment of the Boston Police Department in 1838.

I will disregard your accusation of dishonesty. Let's try to keep this civil.

What is your point? Are you really contending that the concept of police forces is "experimental" or are you just trying to bait me personally?

macbeth25 · July 12, 2009, 11:52:26 PM

Quote from: NotNow on July 12, 2009, 08:31:57 PM
There is no civilian review board in Duval County. Federal law enforcement agencies can not enforce state and local laws.

I thought there was one but I now understand there is not. Take a look at this story: http://www.news4jax.com/news/19789424/detail.html
That's why I thought there was one. There also seems to be some sort of "facebook" group also talking about a review board.
http://jaxpolitics.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/push-begins-for-police-review-board/
I think some places do have them and it may be a good idea for Jacksonville and Duval County as well.

NotNow · July 13, 2009, 07:31:12 AM

macbeth, in Duval County (JSO specifically) the use of force by Police is reviewed by the State Attorneys Office. The "Response to Resistance" board that you hear discussed here is a board composed of senior JSO administrators who review the case AFTER the SAO has completed their investigation and ruled on it. The JSO RTR board is simply ensuring that the Officer followed the guidelines and policies of the JSO, which are more restrictive than State law.

Civilian Review Boards have historically introduced politics into what should be a clinical investigation. All of the groups that you see arguing here and on TV would want representation and the bickering quickly overpowers reason. I have seen these things at work and they are ugly. I saw somewhere where it was stated that a court found CRB's to be a violation of Officer's rights. I would agree with that and I believe we should stay away from such a thing. The SAO does a good job investigaiting and the JSO RTR Board is open to the public. You should go to one and see the process. Once again, i would also urge all on this board to participate by attending the RTR Board and attending the Civilian Academy. There you can meet our new recruits and ask them about their educational attainments yourself and get a feel for what kind of people we are putting on the street. You can take part in the same training that your Officers recieve and make an informed decision for yourself.

parabellum · July 13, 2009, 03:18:08 PM

Without commenting on the particulars of this specific case; I have to say that people seem too willing to overlook that engaging in criminal behavior is inherently dangerous. If you decide to pursue that path there's an inherent risk that you're going to get killed, either by your victims, other criminals, or the police.

Tripoli1711 · July 13, 2009, 04:41:35 PM

Steven, I think that is a pretty extreme example of making a molehill out of a mountain. While it can be dangerous to drive on expressways driving on I-95 is not a conscious example to disregard the legal and moral obligations we have as citizens and human beings and endeavor to do harm to our fellow man, therefore entering an underground world of less than desireable characters and danger. There are different lives of crime, and what I just described doesn't apply to all. Stupid kids spray painting a wall isn't the same.. but they are all a far sight more dire of a personal decision requiring a great deal more personal responsibility for the consequences than is choosing to drive your car in rush hour.

Tripoli1711 · July 13, 2009, 04:53:12 PM

It would be an interesting study.. not as to raw data, because obviously an overwhelmingly higher percentage of the general population drives than does commit felonies, but percentage.... What percentage of people who drive on expressways over 5 years die. What percentage of people who regularly engage in felonious activity for a period of 5 years die as a result of "the life"? That would be a totally useless and interesting study.

parabellum · July 13, 2009, 05:49:13 PM

Quote from: stephendare on July 13, 2009, 03:27:28 PM
sounds like driving down 95 south through baymeadows at 5.

Or JTB!

Mugatu · July 19, 2009, 11:02:45 PM

Jumping into this kind of late. My take on this is that the officer was not incompetent enough to warrant facing criminal charges, but WAS incompetent enough to warrant being fired. The people of this city deserve a professional police department and it appears this officer wasn't up to snuff.