New bus shelters?

[BridgeTroll]

Jacksonville takes another look at bus shelters with advertisements

Previously rejected, the idea for ad-supported stops is back for debate.

By Larry Hannan Story updated at 6:28 AM on Monday, Jul. 13, 2009

Jacksonville City Councilman Warren Jones remembers driving on Edgewood Avenue and seeing a woman waiting for the bus in a pouring rainstorm.

There was no shelter at the bus stop, and the woman was getting drenched.

"I think we kind of overlook these people who need to take the bus," Jones said. "People are becoming more dependent on public transportation with gas prices high."

Jones is pushing an amendment to the city's sign ordinance that would allow more shelters to be constructed at bus stops. There are about 6,600 bus stops in Jacksonville, and only 400 of them have shelters.

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority would like to see more of them built, too. But it doesn't have the money to build shelters, which cost about $4,000 to $12,000 each, or to maintain them at a price of about $1,200 a year.

JTA would like to have a private company build and maintain them in exchange for the right to sell advertising, but the city's sign ordinance prohibits advertising on the bus shelters. Jones has proposed amending that ordinance to allow advertisements.

"This is a way to improve public service without the taxpayers having to pay any money for it," JTA spokesman Mike Miller said.

It's been attempted before. A previous proposal by Councilman Art Shad got bogged down in committees and was never voted on by the full City Council. Shad is supporting Jones' amendment.

"It's very similar to what I sponsored before," Shad said. "We just couldn't get it passed. But I think we have a good chance of getting this done."

Council members Stephen Joost, Ray Holt, Reggie Brown, Don Redman and Glorious Johnson have agreed to co-sponsor the amendment with Jones and Shad.

The amendment needs to go through the Land Use and Zoning Committee. It could also go to the Planning Commission and the Transportation, Energy and Utilities Committee before going to the full council.

Jones hopes to get it passed in the next two months, but he will face a familiar opponent. One of the biggest critics of Shad's original proposal was Bill Brinton, a Jacksonville lawyer who led a successful citizen initiative against the previous proposal.

On Friday, Brinton said he opposed the new plan as well. He said more shelters are one thing, but putting advertising on them is another.

"It was a bad idea then and it's still a bad idea now," he said. "The overall concept puts advertising on the public right of way and has an adverse effect on drivers because of the visual clutter."

Miller said the plan was to build shelters on roads where a lot of people get on and off the buses. Those roads include portions of Atlantic, Beach, Blanding and Roosevelt boulevards.

They would not allow bus shelters to be built in residential neighborhoods, which was a concern cited when Shad proposed his amendment, Miller said.

In addition, alcohol, tobacco, religious and political ads will not be allowed, he said.

If the amendment passes, JTA hopes a private company will build about 10 to 15 new shelters a year.

larry.hannan@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4470

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-07-13/story/jacksonville_takes_another_look_at_bus_shelters_with_advertisements

[hanjin1]

Good ole Bill needs to ride the bus on a hot August day and then see what he says.

[jason_contentdg]

Seems like the advertising could be added in an aesthetic way.  Sounds like the shelters offer a great canvas for a design competition.

[BridgeTroll]

It makes me wonder if Bill has been in other cities... Shelters with ads are not uncommon.

[hanjin1]

i doubt that any advertisement could be as distracting as those billboards for the erotic stores or those bikini hair removal ads we get.

[exnewsman]

If the bill passes, the plan is to add approximately 50 shelters a year, not the 10-15 the FTU story states. Again - a key point is "at NO cost to the taxpayer."  In today's economic times, anytime you can improve amenties for citizens w/o any fees, taxes, etc. then you should give it serious consideration.  Plus if you view the story JTA has on its website, it says waiving the sign ordinance for government/city amenities like bus shelter ads does not (according to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) open Pandora's box for other sign issues.  That was a major stumbling block in the 2005 bill.

[reednavy]

This sounds worse than my hometowns debate on electronic billboards.

I do feel bad for the people standing in the blazing sun or the mighty thudnerstorms we get almost everyday this time of year. It isn't fair to them, or to the rest of us. Once again, you see a lawyer sticking his nose someplace where it doesn't belong because he'll never use JTA.

[thelakelander]

Its time for Jacksonville to grow up.  People complain about the state of the bus system and when JTA attempts to improve it, the complaints get stronger.  The shelters I've come across in a few of the cities I've visited over the last month, look pretty nice to me.  If JTA can get something like these for free, what are we waiting for?

Chicago




Baltimore




Pittsburgh

[Dog Walker]

Bill Brinton has done really good work on our sign ordinance and some other issues, but he's off base on this one.

[thelakelander]

^Does Bill Brinton have an alternative plan for us to get free bus shelters?  If so, could anyone share some real life success stories that came from implementing the idea?

[heights unknown]

The bus stop shelters with their ad displays adds a certain commerical and business chic to cities in my opinion.  The problem here (in Jax and probably other cities as well) is finding the money to build them; the advertisers would be one way to foot the maintenance costs, but to construct and place new bus stop shelters are going to cost a lot of moula.

Heights Unknown

[vicupstate]

Jax's ban on off-premises advertising speaks VERY well of the city,IMO.  Especially since is was a grassroots effort that enacted it.   

Apparently Bill Britton fears a camel's nose under the tent. As the driving force behind enactment of the ordinance, his fears should be at LEAST seriously pondered, and certainly not quickly dismissed. 

Ads on a bus shelter may sound innocuous, but would it stop at that? Personally, I would need an ironclad guarantee, or as close to that as reality can provide.  

 

[brainstormer]

So apparently this whole sign ordinance thing happened before I moved here.  Can someone fill me in on the history of what happened?  I still see a lot of billboards around town; were they grandfathered in?  What about city signage and retail signage in downtown?  Is this ordinance why it currently sucks?  What was the original intent of the ordinance and why did it come about?

In regards to the new amendment, I fully support it.  Lake's pictures above show that this isn't some sort of a back door scam.  They look nice!  I encourage Mr. Britton and his fans to let go of whatever fears they have.  He doesn't want visual clutter on the roads.  Has he seen our roads?  We have enough trash and broken down vehicles to provide lots of visual clutter.  And most people are too busy talking on their phones or texting to pay much attention to a bus station advertisement.  Having bus shelters would definitely help our quality of life, and I have let my councilman know he should support them.

[TheProfessor]

I know it was mentioned how they were going to regulate what kinds of advertising goes on there.  I think anything should be able to be advertised.  From beer to religion.  It should not matter, regulating advertising would cause too much grey area for discussion.  Freedom of speech.

[Charles Hunter]

From what I remember, there were a great many more billboards around town.  One of the biggest "eyesores" that helped galvanize opposition were the portable ad signs on every corner.  Each strip mall seemed to have at least one per every store in the center.  This site has some examples: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.signssales.com/Copy_of_ChangeableBillboard2_sm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.signssales.com/mobile_billboards_billboard_portable_roadside_changeable_letter_message_sign.html&usg=__899rxu2K6wBl_kbv2GbWcFy-S5Q=&h=200&w=250&sz=14&hl=en&start=6&sig2=h3BShNiJ7hllTAi2DtSPwA&um=1&tbnid=7wz-q-6jU86tyM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dportable%2Bbillboards%26imgsz%3Dsmall%257Cmedium%257Clarge%257Cxlarge%26imgtype%3Dphoto%26as_st%3Dy%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=ovBbStTxKZCqmQeUj5XZDQ

wow - sorry about that url, if anyone can fix it, please do!!

I think Mr. Brinton is afraid the bus shelter ads will be, as said earlier, the camel's nose under the tent.  I have heard him say the big billboard companies are just waiting for Jax to pass the bus shelter ads bill.   He points out that they (CBS, ClearChannel, and so) all have large staffs of lawyers dedicated to nothing but suing cities over ad bans.  My guess (pure speculation, no actual words from Bill on this) is that he doesn't think the 9th Circuit opinion would hold much water here.  In any event, it would take costly litigation, with either the City or the billboard lawyers, appealing decisions all the way to the Supreme Court (assuming our Circuit upheld the City).

Another issue - can the City (or JTA) decide what ads to display, and what not to?

All that said, I hope they can work something out, and get more shelters, even with advertising if need be.