A New Look for East Bay Street?

[ProjectMaximus]

So now streetcar is a more promising first step than commuter rail?

[thelakelander]

I don't think its an either or situation.  You could probably fund initial segments for both (we own the S-Line too) at the same time, if desired.  Nevertheless, first there has to be a commitment to actually do something.  At this point, that has not occurred.

[Ocklawaha]

Dump truck v streetcar, Streetcar wins.

Streetcars DO get into tangles with autos and trucks on a regular basis when NEW. That tends to fade if a city is smart enough to use the medians (subject of this thread) or some other form of exclusive right of way. The number one culprits are those that make sudden turns, in front of and across the path of the streetcar.
People turning left will come out of a turn lane and not even check the mirror for a streetcar quickly approaching from behind and farther left. Suddenly they make the turn and SMACK. Dallas has come up with a great solution with a series of mini-gates, and large square signs in front of the turn lanes. These are digital signs with a warning bell, they are placed where you would normally see a no U turn sign. The digital sign goes wild if a streetcar approaches. You can't miss it. Dozens of these type of accidents nation wide but the number of LRT miles is pretty high for so few accidents.


hardly immune to accidents

Skyways or monorails tend to drop things on people, usually pedestrians walking on downtown sidewalks, suddenly a full size bus or truck tire just drops on their heads. (2 cases that I know of) but total monorail mileage is microscopic next to light rail.

Is the streetcar or skyway or Commuter Rail a better start? It's sort of like starting a good baseball team but leaving out the catcher and shortstop. Pick any two and leave them out, you'll have a disaster on your hands.
FIRST THING OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF CONSULTANTS GANNET FLEMMING WAS: "Your city is a perfect match for Commuter Rail, because you already have the start of an inner city distribution system in place. Extend the Skyway to a few more destinations and build Light Rail to the rest and no other city in the East could touch what you folks ALREADY HAVE!"  Lakelander was there, he's my witness. WE NEED ALL THREE. Start building and don't look back. Get the Skyway moving again with the stimulus, and get the streetcar moving with local funding. Get the Convention Center out of the way and build a new and larger center down on the river - WITH HOTELS. Tie in Amtrak, Greyhound and attract a Trailways Interurban Bus operator, and we WOULD BE untouchable.

OCKLAWAHA

[fsujax]

Well, if COJ said here's $100 million JTA, I am sure the agency would have no problem spending it to build streetcar or some sort of hybrid system for the S-Line. Where is the leadserhip saying to do that?? JTA can't just make money magically appear.

[thelakelander]

Well we have $100 million in BJP funds set aside for rapid mass transit ROW.  Maybe its time to put ice on spending it for BRT related projects and appeal to the council to change the terms on what's left of it for rail implementation (ROW, construction and O&M) only? 

This would be an easy go if we could get the public support of JTA for such an endeavor.  I can't imagine anyone on the council being against implementing something that would stimulate economic development immediately.

[fsujax]

Me either.

[GatorShane]

Everyone look at the Dublin, Ireland tour post and the idea that Lake had about the creative way they developed the medians there. What a wonderful idea.

[Charles Hunter]

Isn't the Mayor pushing to take the JTA's $100 million for other projects in BJP (roads over budget and court house) and port area projects?  Pushing to change those funds for implementing transit would go square against charming Johnny's efforts to use it for his projects.  Who do you think has more clout with Council (see the Waste Management deal that is about to pass, for a comparison).

[thelakelander]

You never know if you don't fight.  I'm really suprised JTA hasn't been more vocal about  the mayor wanting to raid transit money for the courthouse (because that is were its really going).  Unfortunately, Jax has turned into a passive community that sits on its back and continues to take whatever the good ole boys dish out.

[thelakelander]

Everyone look at the Dublin, Ireland tour post and the idea that Lake had about the creative way they developed the medians there. What a wonderful idea.

Here is the image:



We tend to think that medians have to be heavily landscaped.  This may be great for Blanding or Beach Blvd., but not for urban core areas because they limit walkability.  So instead of making them only provide pleasant views for automobile drivers, make them useful for pedestrians, cycling and rail.

[thelakelander]

• JaxPride is officially on the record via resolution as opposed to the construction of seven mast arm traffic signals as part of the current Bay Street Town Center project. Its president, Oliver Barakat â€" a commercial real estate broker with CB Richard Ellis â€" has asked the City to “promptly cease this project” because the mast arms are “not an improvement, but a detraction of the pedestrian-scaled improvements made by the City to increase pedestrian attraction and activity.”

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/citynotes.php

[Charles Hunter]

I was down that way the other day - the City is moving ahead, and those poles are pretty big.  I wonder if the ones in front of the Court House and Court House Annex will affect their usefulness for conversion to something else - the bases were put beyond the sidewalk in the "lawn".

[heights unknown]

I agree with all that has been said in this post regarding Bay Street, and I understand what is either beginning to happen or is happening on Bay Street relative to entertainment, bars, restaurants, etc...i.e., it appears that Bay Street is trying to become, or the City is prodding it to become downtown's entertainment destination sans "The Landing."

This is fine and dandy, but you know what?  I think it would have been more appropriate a decade or more ago, when LaVilla sat with empty grass lots, to make Lavilla downtown's entertainment district; I know, it's not on the River, it's a bit displaced from the central core, and it would take great effort to travel to LaVilla to get drunk; well, with all the talk about light rail, street cars, extending the skyway, and iinstigating other modes of transportation downtown and in the central core and beyond, I am sure someone, hopefully our powers that be in City Hall, with all of the moula they make could have come up with innovative ways of solving the transportation problem.

Though LaVilla is no longer a black neighborhood (for the most part), it had a rich history of entertainment, bars, movie theaters, restaurants, etc., and I'm sure if someone had thought of that theme for LaVilla, and LaVilla had progressed into downtown's entertainment district, it would have sparked other types of growth in and around that area.

Heights Unknown

[tufsu1]

I was down that way the other day - the City is moving ahead, and those poles are pretty big. 

From what I can see, no poles have been installed

[Charles Hunter]

There's at least one upright one down near the stadium, on the east side - it doesn't have the part that sticks out over the road yet.  Might be more than one.