Police to Peyton: Hurt our families, we'll hurt yours

[thelakelander]

Gate Petroleum, mayor's family business, subject of boycott

The message: Hurt our families, we’ll hurt yours.

In retaliation for city budget woes that may freeze wages and reduce benefits, local police officers are steering clear of Gate Petroleum stations.

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/2009-07-07/story/police_to_peyton_hurt_our_families_well_hurt_yours

[JMac]

heaven forbid the police or any other public employees have to suffer from the recession too.

[brainstormer]

^Hasn't it already been said that police and fire make up 50% of the city's operating budget?  I guess the more we cut from ourselves, the larger the percentage will be if they don't have to make any cutbacks.  I think this little stunt of theirs will backfire.  They thought citizens weren't on their side before.  That article actually just pissed me off!  They have it a lot better than most folks in regards to insurance, overtime pay, early retirement, etc.  And then what about all of those retired cops who get rehired by the city or state in other positions and double-dip!

[NotNow]

This was an off handed statement by Nelson Cuba.  99.99% of JSO has never heard of this until this story was printed.  It is a stupid idea that would never fly.  Take what you read with a grain of salt. 

On the other stuff, if you did a little research you would find that JSO is on the low end of the scale when it comes to medical insurance, pension benefits, and pay when compared to similar agencies in Florida.  I don't know what to tell you about retired Officers who get another job...if it is a GOB set up (as some are) then I am with you, but most (by far the most) HAVE to get a job so that they can keep up medical coverage and make ebough money to live on.  Police work (and firefighting) is a physical job.  EVERY law enforcement agency has a twenty to twenty five year retirement (many have as low as ten years, see Tampa) just like the military because it is a young mans game.   Cops, Firemen, and Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines have ALWAYS had to work after retirement because we have to live.  We aren't all Generals or Chiefs you know.  If you want a smaller or less competent Police & Fire department then vote in politicians that will do it.  That is your right.  As I pointed out above, JSO Officers have made many concessions in past years when the city said they were broke and the result is that we don't compare well with other agencies.  Officers know that times are tough, and we are tightening our belts too.  I just mailed in my stormwater and trash fees.  I'm paying my bills as best I can, just like you.  I have cut my cable and other luxuries just like you.  We are now a single income family, just like many others.  We have kept our promises, and we will see who else keeps theirs.

[mtraininjax]

Yawn.....isn't Littlepage spewing some rhetoric about the river right about now.....

[ChriswUfGator]

Yeah, gate petroleum with it's billion a year in annual revenues from sales in 6 states, plus being one of the largest concrete producers in the US, etc., etc., is really going to get wounded if 1200 cops stop buying gas there.

WTF. Publicity stunt. It will have zero effect.

[brainstormer]

notnow, I assume you are a police officer, and I respect the job you do.  I really mean that.  As a teacher, I am part of a union just like you, even though I personally am against them.  If my union head was saying stuff like this, there would be a few phone calls made or emails sent.  You guys need to fire Cuba or at least reign him in.  He is doing more hurt than good by speaking out like this and obviously your union has some issues if no one knows about this silly idea.  Can you really take him seriously after this stunt?  As a cop and a force, where do you guys stand on the proposed tax increase?  I'm OK with it but there is no denying that police and fire make up a huge part of our city budget.  Wouldn't it best serve you guys to force your dept. heads to find other places to cut your budgets besides salary and pensions and then say, look we have found millions in cuts, we personally support the tax increase...leave our benefits alone.

I guess this whole budget crisis is really tearing our city apart.  Uneducated people, Jacksonville has a lot of them  , are becoming irrational and there is so much anger as people take sides.  There already is enough hate and divide in this city.  Everyone, including police and fire, needs to start putting forward ideas for how to keep our city going.  I don't want to live here if we become a pit of despair and hatred!  Step up to the plate already.  I haven't heard one good idea from the police or fire department.  Just whining.

[NotNow]

Believe me, he started getting e-mails right after his statement.  Nelson is a passionate guy, and he does stuff like this sometimes.  I hope to hear a statement from him soon about this.

My personal feeling is that a tax increase is not doable right now.  The city can cut back to core responsibilities.  Why is the city in the education business?  Why are they in the day care business?  Provide utilities, libraries, police & fire services.  Keep up the parks. Stop subsidizing every sports league in town.  Cut all but a handful (that's five) AIMO's. For a start.  I respect teachers too.  You know what would happen if we pay 20% less than other cities in Florida and offer a retirement that is not even closely comparable.  Why would anyone with sense want to work here?  DCSB has the same problem, don't they?  My kids went to local schools and I saw a minority percentage of the teachers doing most of the work.  For those that aren't stuck by years in service or local ties, why put their souls (as I know they do) into the job knowing that they are shorting their own families?  If you can go to Orlando, Tampa, or even Tallahassee and get a much better package, why not?  Quality is key here.  Think of your schools best teachers, now think of the worst.  If salary and benefits go south, which one will eventually leave?  Sure, there will always be some who want to be cops.  You can lower the standards.  But despite what is said on this board, when the JSO is involved in really dangerous and high risk operations, they are completed professionally and quickly.  That is done through quiet training and proper equipment, but more than anything....good people. 

[brainstormer]

^Good.  I agree with what you suggest.  See my post on page 3 of the thread below.  I also would like to hear your ideas for making the police department more efficient?  Bring something to the table :;

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5356.30.html

[CrysG]

I'd like to remind you that the COJ doesn't want to cut cost on the JSO but on their pension benefits. So the cutbacks are going to hurt the people who are retired or about to retire. The guys who have put in 20 years of working for this city.

How would you feel like the COJ misspent money for YEARS and then said "oh we don't have the money to pay for our f ups, now I'm gonna take some of your retirement, Oh and raise your property tax too."

I'm not a fan of JSO, but I don't think think they should be punished because the city pooped away $160 million cost overrun for the new courthouse.

[JMac]

CrysG - JSO, or anyone with a guaranteed pension is going to have a hard time getting sympathy from those of us us in the real world who have seen the value of our 401ks and IRAs plummet over the last couple years.

[JaxNative68]

wow. great way for our city to show how redneck we really are.

[CrysG]

CrysG - JSO, or anyone with a guaranteed pension is going to have a hard time getting sympathy from those of us us in the real world who have seen the value of our 401ks and IRAs plummet over the last couple years.

Mine didn't tank. It's up to the owners of the retirement account's to protect themselves. There were options that had little to no risk. The people who are in trouble are the one's who had their retirement in medium to high risk investments. They wanted high returns and now they are paying for it. That's the real world.

[CrysG]

I think thats part of the complaint, Crys.

The Police pension fund can take whatever risks it wants, and jacksonville guarantees the results.

The rest of us are in the real world.  We don't get that kind of guarantee

So it's there fault that they were smart enough to protect themselves? It's there fault they used their brains to make sure that after 20 years of working they would have money to retire with.

As much as most of you defend the JSO and I can't stand them, I'd never thought I'd be the one to say....

If you want guaranteed retirement join JSO. But don't take it from people who were promised it to begin with.

[JMac]

So it's there fault that they were smart enough to protect themselves? It's there fault they used their brains to make sure that after 20 years of working they would have money to retire with.... If you want guaranteed retirement join JSO. But don't take it from people who were promised it to begin with.

Other than getting a public union job, how do people with guaranteed pensions use their brains to make sure they have money to retire with?  Let them have a defined contribution plan with a company (city) match like the rest of us.  Then they can control their investments and deal with the consequences.  If they're investment geniuses like you, they'll have money when they retire.