Where are the Mall's PART TWO, Our missing downtown...

Ocklawaha · June 23, 2009, 05:10:02 PM

Okie dokie y'all, we've pretty well figured out the cure for the ills of the whole city in the original "Where are the Malls?" Now a new thread to rebuild downtown.

Counting on the space at or near The Shipyards, what Can't Miss, Must Have, Create it's own energy, Super Store do we need in a new "NORTHBANK ESPLANADE" to create it's own energy. Looks to me like:

IKEA - Can't miss
BASS PRO SHOPS - Another Can't Miss.
And?

Connect it to the landing and the new Convention Center/Hyatt site with the Water Taxi, Skyway and Streetcars, then just jump out of the way while it fills to capacity day after day, night after night and weekend after weekend. This is not a remake of the Landing, as the Landing is far too small, has no transit or parking to speak of... This "Esplanade Idea" would be more of a Main Street USA (in real life - eat your heart out Mickey).

Other factors?

A couple of mega museums?

Theater?

An Aquarium?

Food? What is the must have in this arena?

This would wake up the sleeping giant, and fill it with incredible resolve!

OCKLAWAHA

hightowerlover · June 23, 2009, 06:31:57 PM

oh jesus, yeah thats what we need a huge ikea eyesore on riverfront property. have you ever seen these things, they'd give the stadium a run for its money in size

Ocklawaha · June 23, 2009, 07:09:44 PM

Quote from: hightowerlover on June 23, 2009, 06:31:57 PM
oh jesus, yeah thats what we need a huge ikea eyesore on riverfront property. have you ever seen these things, they'd give the stadium a run for its money in size

That all depends on how WE design the area, in Japan Ikea has it's own "Skyway", in New York they have their own "BRT". They also have a record for fitting into the community. As for me? Oh yeah, the Miami "Sawgrass area" store is great, ditto Orlando's. Don't know if I'd go inside if your into Amish Built American Classic furniture, might cause your head to explode... But anyone that likes modern will come out drunk on ideas.

OCKLAWAHA

tufsu1 · June 23, 2009, 10:29:37 PM

I, for one, can do without having Ikea or Bass Pro Shops in downtown...and for that matter, both locate near interstate interchanges...Ikea has built very few urban stores in the U.S. (Atlanta and Tampa) but both are still at the edge of the core and next to the highway.

futurejax · June 23, 2009, 10:47:35 PM

Forgive the somewhat off-topic and potentially stupid question but is there river boat gambling on the St. John's? Remember, out of towner here.

Charles Hunter · June 23, 2009, 11:03:41 PM

Nope, you have to get a day cruise out of Mayport, and they go out into international waters.

Ocklawaha · June 23, 2009, 11:06:22 PM

Quote from: futurejax on June 23, 2009, 10:47:35 PM
Forgive the somewhat off-topic and potentially stupid question but is there river boat gambling on the St. John's? Remember, out of towner here.

There are no stupid questions. I wish there were a game boat on the St. Johns and Ocklawaha, Something like Jacksonville-Palatka-Sanford / Jacksonville-Palatka-Silver Springs-Eustis. That would be most cool and bring back a ton of our own history. The state has bucked every gambling trend since the first missionary's crossed over the border from the Georgia Colony's. Only recently they have been giving ground to the Native American reservation casinos.

Otherwise, we do have cruise ships that run pretty much every day and they open up the tables as soon as their past the legal limits at sea.

OCKLAWAHA

Ocklawaha · June 23, 2009, 11:13:48 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on June 23, 2009, 10:29:37 PM
I, for one, can do without having Ikea or Bass Pro Shops in downtown...and for that matter, both locate near interstate interchanges...Ikea has built very few urban stores in the U.S. (Atlanta and Tampa) but both are still at the edge of the core and next to the highway.

Assuming we might get past the Interstate expressway limits, MLK, Comodore Point Expressway etc might work. But what is your drawback to having magnet stores to possibly jump start downtown retail again. I don't think a repainted Landing (which is quickly becoming more and more like an outdoor toilet) or a new Convention Center in a better location is going to be the magic bullet. We need something big, HUGE, massive! BOLD! You've really got me on this one... Anyone else have a way to make this happen? We could always open a downtown theme park "Baptist World".

OCKLAWAHA

JaxNole · June 24, 2009, 12:08:50 AM

Just build it on where Brooklyn Park was supposed to be. Riverside Ave via Forest is supposed to be the new gateway to downtown. Tens of thousands of workers from the CBD, Southbank, Brooklyn and Five Points could eat cheap meatballs for lunch and then go back when the workday is over to shop.

Easy access to 95 and 10 and better than an empty lot.

Just make it vertical and refrain from a footprint 100 times the size of a Walmart.

Keith-N-Jax · June 24, 2009, 02:30:00 AM

Build it with what, city is broke as a bum on the street, and we've seen how they handle business with developers. Peyton is now thinking about increases property taxes. A mall downtown should be the least of our worries. Guys take a look of whats going around you. Downtown is headed no where no time soon. Nice idea, but lets be realistic.

thelakelander · June 24, 2009, 08:13:24 AM

Imo, its not the city's place to get IKEA downtown. Either we are a market for them or we aren't. I also question if it would be a good move, if you're pushing for a walkable urban environment. With the city's budget issues, they need to focus on improving connectivity and mobility in the core to attract economic infill development without being forced to give incentives for every one trick pony that comes along.

copperfiend · June 24, 2009, 08:57:46 AM

I like IKEA as much as the next 20-something home owner but I would be shocked if they built one here in the next twenty years.

thelakelander · June 24, 2009, 09:05:42 AM

Here are a few scaled aerials to add to this discussion:

Asheville, NC Walmart Supercenter

Jacksonville - Southside & Beach Walmart Supercenter

Atlanta IKEA (parking is located under building)

Jacksonville Regency Mall

Over downtown aerial at same scale

Ocklawaha · June 24, 2009, 09:59:41 AM

IKEA Red Hook NJ or is this the Shipyards? Hee Hee

Don't sweat the small stuff y'all, nobody said Ikea had to be part of this conversation, merely a suggestion.

I do know that when Oklahoma City built the Canal Walk, they went out and recruited top attractors, which included Bass Pro and TinselTown. They went from a LaVilla like warehouse district to a Main Street USA overnight. Bottom line - IT WORKED.

Why are we collectively locked into this "Can't Do It" think? What I'm suggesting is finish the basic transit and then create a downtown magnet that would draw crowds. What the landing was supposed to do but hasn't, (too small), but what if we bracketed the new Convention Center/Hyatt hotel? Landing on one side - New stuff on the other? Go ahead and toss Brooklyn into the mix. Get aggressive, do something...

I'm not asking you what we CAN'T or SHOULDN'T do, what I'm asking is what COULD we do that would be a certainty?

OCKLAWAHA

thelakelander · June 24, 2009, 10:10:05 AM

I don't think its a can't do issue. I wonder is this the right thing to do for DT and the urban core. Typically, big pony gimmicks don't work well long term in regards to urban sustainability. Personally, I'd like to see this community move away from the big ticket "make or break" items and refocus on connectivity and building the urban community to survive as a self sustaining one. It might not be the sexy thing to attract suburbanites to downtown on the weekends, but if it can happen, a lot of the grand expensive schemes will happen on their own with 100% private sector investment.