Elements of Urbanism: Nashville

[Jason]

Great tour and a great looking city.  Very similar to Jax in many ways.

How much of an added benefit comes from being the state capitol?  If Tallahassee's government infrastructure was here instead we'd likely have a much stonger developed core similar to our competitors like Nashville.  Now, that doesn't guarantee that Jax would have been more vibrant and connected, however, Nashville is certainly benefitting from the additional downtown workforce, parks, memorials, money....

I the long run, I still wholeheartedly believe the city will get her act together and capitalize on the inherent amenities located in and around Jacksonville. 

[stjr]

While we are at it, note the DOWNTOWN RIVERFRONT venue for large events in the picture below.  Without the Shipyards and/or JEA property, this won't be happening in Jacksonville:

[Wacca Pilatka]

Great tour and a great looking city.  Very similar to Jax in many ways.

How much of an added benefit comes from being the state capitol?  If Tallahassee's government infrastructure was here instead we'd likely have a much stonger developed core similar to our competitors like Nashville.  Now, that doesn't guarantee that Jax would have been more vibrant and connected, however, Nashville is certainly benefitting from the additional downtown workforce, parks, memorials, money....

I the long run, I still wholeheartedly believe the city will get her act together and capitalize on the inherent amenities located in and around Jacksonville. 

I think the state capitol definitely makes a difference.  That's part of why downtown Indianapolis looks so vibrant too.

[thelakelander]

One thing that seems obvious to me:  Even though some thought Jacksonville's sidewalks were adequate when I raised the issue on a thread, these pictures tell me "no way!".  Nashville's walks are much wider, nicely treed for shade, and much more pedestrian friendly.  Jax couldn't handle these crowds if we had them.   We need to take a much harder look at our streetscapes.

for the most part, Jacksonville's sidewalk widths are similar to Nashville.  The two images you show are of Church Street, which has appeared to be the recipient of a recent streetscape project.

Here are a few images of downtown Nashville streets with narrower sidewalks.

[thelakelander]

Great tour and a great looking city.  Very similar to Jax in many ways.

How much of an added benefit comes from being the state capitol?  If Tallahassee's government infrastructure was here instead we'd likely have a much stonger developed core similar to our competitors like Nashville.  Now, that doesn't guarantee that Jax would have been more vibrant and connected, however, Nashville is certainly benefitting from the additional downtown workforce, parks, memorials, money....

I the long run, I still wholeheartedly believe the city will get her act together and capitalize on the inherent amenities located in and around Jacksonville. 

I think the state capitol definitely makes a difference.  That's part of why downtown Indianapolis looks so vibrant too.

I think it helps but its not the end all.  Norfolk is a great example of a non-state capitol, with a beach (VA Beach) and a vibrant downtown core.  Regardless of the economic stimulators, it really boils down to "connectivity" and "clustering" complementing development.

Norfolk: Jacksonville's Twin?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-jul-norfolk-jacksonvilles-twin

[tufsu1]

Having visited Nashville several times over the past 15 years, much has changed...and most of it has been in the last 8-10 years.

That said, it is important to note that most of this costs $....TN has a pretty high sales tax rate....whcih includes Nashville's 2.25% local option....how many folks in Jax (or on this site for that matter) would support a local sales tax like that?

[Wacca Pilatka]

Great tour and a great looking city.  Very similar to Jax in many ways.

How much of an added benefit comes from being the state capitol?  If Tallahassee's government infrastructure was here instead we'd likely have a much stonger developed core similar to our competitors like Nashville.  Now, that doesn't guarantee that Jax would have been more vibrant and connected, however, Nashville is certainly benefitting from the additional downtown workforce, parks, memorials, money....

I the long run, I still wholeheartedly believe the city will get her act together and capitalize on the inherent amenities located in and around Jacksonville. 

I think the state capitol definitely makes a difference.  That's part of why downtown Indianapolis looks so vibrant too.

I think it helps but its not the end all.  Norfolk is a great example of a non-state capitol, with a beach (VA Beach) and a vibrant downtown core.  Regardless of the economic stimulators, it really boils down to "connectivity" and "clustering" complementing development.

Norfolk: Jacksonville's Twin?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-jul-norfolk-jacksonvilles-twin

That is one of my favorite articles of yours, as I live in Tidewater Va.  Norfolk has done a tremendous job with respect to connectivity (a concept I've learned about primarily from the articles on this site).

Of course, Norfolk and Indianapolis are two of the cities that have gotten the downtown mall presentation "right," as opposed to Nashville, which evidently got it wrong before it got its downtown right.

[reednavy]

A downtown mall for Nashville probably wouldn't do so great even today, because all the high end stores are locaing to The Mall at Green Hills and vicinity, where money is thrown around like toilet paper.

[JaxByDefault]

A downtown mall for Nashville probably wouldn't do so great even today, because all the high end stores are locaing to The Mall at Green Hills and vicinity, where money is thrown around like toilet paper.

Agreed.

I really don't understand the need to bring the suburbs downtown with downtown malls or chain-laden mini-burbs like The Landing. It's not like Green Hills Mall is a far drive from anywhere in the Nashville core. 

...and yes, Green Hills Mall -- especially after the re-do-- dwarfs the consumption at SJTC. It even managed to suck the soul out of Davis-Kidd bookstore, a sin for which no mere Prada or Tiffanys can ever compensate.

Similar development will likely cluster around SJTC until something newer comes along. Malls are probably the su/urban construct with the least amount of longevity and the most need for continued "updating." However, even Green Hills in established neighborhoods (Old Green Hills/Woodmont and Lipscomb/Belmont). It's the equivilent of if JAX had a mall in Avondale.

[stjr]

One thing that seems obvious to me:  Even though some thought Jacksonville's sidewalks were adequate when I raised the issue on a thread, these pictures tell me "no way!".  Nashville's walks are much wider, nicely treed for shade, and much more pedestrian friendly.  Jax couldn't handle these crowds if we had them.   We need to take a much harder look at our streetscapes.

for the most part, Jacksonville's sidewalk widths are similar to Nashville.  The two images you show are of Church Street, which has appeared to be the recipient of a recent streetscape project.

OK, Lake, I'll take your word for it (although I still percieve a lot more friendliness in Nashville based on the overall tone of the activity in the pictures, especially the picture of the Buffalo Billiards sign you, yourself, cited).  BUT... we don't have even one street that compares to that.  Where do we begin?

[brainstormer]

For one, our sign ordinance needs to be changed for downtown.  Ordinances can be zip code specific.  Do you notice stjr all of the neat signs and storefronts on the Nashville streets?  Jacksonville's current ordinance does not allow for any fun and creativity.  Also we need to encourage and allow for sidewalk seating, similar to Marks and Ivy.

When we build the new convention center on the old courthouse site, I'm hoping we design the side that faces Bay to allow for street level retail and this would be a great place to make sure the sidewalk is wide enough to have sidewalk seating.

[JaxByDefault]

That said, it is important to note that most of this costs $....TN has a pretty high sales tax rate....whcih includes Nashville's 2.25% local option....how many folks in Jax (or on this site for that matter) would support a local sales tax like that?

Nashville's local sales tax rate of 2.25% is actually among the lowest local option sales tax rates in Tennessee. All cities have a local option between 2.25 and 2.75%.

The combined state-local taxes are lower in Tennessee than Florida. The combined state-local tax burden (incl. property, sales, gasoline, etc) in Tennessee is 8.5% (ranking 48th in the nation.) Florida's rate is 10% (ranking 38th in the nation.) Still not bad, but it doesn't really seem like we're getting our money's worth in Jacksonville like they are in Nashville.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/pf/0704/gallery.tax_friendliest/8.html

[I-10east]

I often hear on Metrojax about the advantages that state capitals have over cities; I don't see any advantages besides of course the states' governments being headquartered there. Look no further than in the state of FL, Tally is vastly overshadowed by all of the other FL metros. Look at the state of NY; They forget that Albany is the capital.

[thelakelander]

OK, Lake, I'll take your word for it (although I still percieve a lot more friendliness in Nashville based on the overall tone of the activity in the pictures, especially the picture of the Buffalo Billiards sign you, yourself, cited).  BUT... we don't have even one street that compares to that.

You're right.  Nashville's downtown streets did feel more inviting, even the ones that did not have heavy pedestrian traffic or wide sidewalks.  From my experience, it was very easily to see that they do a good job of keeping the streets clean and most of the buildings do open up to the street.  Also, although they do have an abundance of parking lots, downtown's heart is pretty compact as far as building placement goes.  You walk down those streets and you feel like you're in a city because buildings line both sides of them for blocks.  Unfortunately, its hard to find this in the Northbank.  The streets also have trees that provide shade for the pedestrian, instead of palms.  There, you can walk good distances without being exposed to the sun.  That's impossible here.  All in all, I believe these factors play an important role in the feel of the street at human scale.

Where do we begin?

Brainstormer mentioned some things that are worth looking into.  However, we also have to get better with infill building placement, shielding surface lots and retrofitting existing buildings to interact with the sidewalks. 

[vicupstate]

Having visited Nashville several times over the past 15 years, much has changed...and most of it has been in the last 8-10 years.

That said, it is important to note that most of this costs $....TN has a pretty high sales tax rate....whcih includes Nashville's 2.25% local option....how many folks in Jax (or on this site for that matter) would support a local sales tax like that?

apples to oranges.  Property taxes are much lower in Tennessee from what i have heard.  Both states have no income tax either.