Jax Demographics

[Ocklawaha]

I did Lake, also ran numbers for MSA's but the data is not complete or at least each City tends to bend it's reports to it's own lifestyle. For example in this sample, I was reaching for those who seem to want to FORCE Jacksonville into some sort of Los Angeles, Miami type of mold. So I ran with what I could find on the larger Cities in a crescent around us.

A good example of the mix of numbers can be found under "gay" families. Dallas, counts Gay and Lesbian numbers, Atlanta brags on percentages being among the top in the nation. All of the other Cities, didn't report the number at all! Likewise the MSA data doesn't seem to have a uniform source. Perhaps the MSA's load these reports their own way? Counting within the City Limits only, was the only good figures I found where everyone seemed to have something to say.

Ocklawaha

[02roadking]

Must be a typo Ock. Numbers do not add up, correctly anyway    Should that be 6.6% white 

Miami
RACE:
....66.6% white
....22.3% black
......7% Asian...
......5.4 other....
....65.8% Latin

[Ocklawaha]

YEAH! I know... Isn't it weird? I thought about that for some time before I had a senior moment! Duh?

My wife is Latin, but race for census purposes is "White"...

So perhaps that is why the information was tacked onto the bottom of the Miami numbers? Not all Latin people are "other" or "black" or "whatever"...  Many in Northern Italy are blond and blue eyed, Ditto for Spain. Colombia in the mountains is full of light skinned, Northern European decent Latins. Colombians from the coast are more likely dark skinned or black.

I think the same applies to the Arabic population in Jacksonville, While it is 10Th in North America, there were no numbers to go with it. Again, I think those numbers are hidden within other groups. This is my best guess anyway, anyone got another idea?


Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

I did Lake, also ran numbers for MSA's but the data is not complete or at least each City tends to bend it's reports to it's own lifestyle. For example in this sample, I was reaching for those who seem to want to FORCE Jacksonville into some sort of Los Angeles, Miami type of mold. So I ran with what I could find on the larger Cities in a crescent around us.

A good example of the mix of numbers can be found under "gay" families. Dallas, counts Gay and Lesbian numbers, Atlanta brags on percentages being among the top in the nation. All of the other Cities, didn't report the number at all! Likewise the MSA data doesn't seem to have a uniform source. Perhaps the MSA's load these reports their own way? Counting within the City Limits only, was the only good figures I found where everyone seemed to have something to say.

Ocklawaha

The easiest way is to pull them directly from the US Census Bureau.  That way you'll get a uniform number and weed out what the chamber of commerces/economic development councils boost up.  Atlanta, in particular, is well known for boosting their numbers at the expense of other communities.

[NotNow]

Hmmm, I guess that I'm one of the few that LIKE living here.  The water is varied and beautiful.  some of the best fishing, diving, hunting in the country.  While Jax is a medium sized city, most of its occupants are very friendly and care about each other (out in the 'burbs).  While I realize that being "white" is politically incorrect, there actually is a Florida culture and an American culture.  It is just not celebrated by some folks anymore.  While Jax has some problems, I don't see any as insurmountable, and I see us as a city unique to ourselves.  This IS a working mans town, and I like that.  We are family oriented and generally conservative in many ways.  We are diverse and welcome large populations of other cultures, but it shouldn't be a "goal" to have certain numbers of any race or "type" of people.  I value my culture just as much as others.  I like downtown and I hope it grows, but I want the other things to improve too.  Our schools and the criminal element both need attention.  I believe that we can improve what is not right and Jax will become a better place, but it will still be Jax, thank God.  I don't want to live in San Francisco or Boston. 

[jbm32206]

I have to agree with you, Notnow....I too, like living here and feel that this city still has the feel of neighbors...where in the larger cities, that tends to get lost.

I'd just like for downtown to expand with the options of shops and eateries. As for the schools, a great deal of the problems with them...lack of discipline, which totally undermines any sense of respect for authority....and that leads to failing. Failing the children, failing to provide a safe environment in which they can learn and teachers can teach.

The rise in crime...again, you're right, it needs to be addressed. We need judges that will put these thugs away and more cops on the streets....and citizens willing to step up to the plate, getting involved in their neighborhoods and take back the streets.

[Galois]

>>>1) Minorities. More specifically, legal immigrants who bring some of their native culture with them. I'm sure there are some out there somewhere, but you just don't feel their impact in the community to the tenth of a degree that you do in places like Oakland or San Fran or Miami or NY or Chicago, etc.

I think this is because the city is so spread out. Besides World of Nations, it is really hard to get all of an ethnic minority together and make something people in Jacksonville will actually go to. Sometimes FCCJ/UNF has interesting speakers/group come... I can't quite remember. I think you should go to the Latin Fest at the beach… I don’t know when it happens but you will be able to see all the Latin girls, and drunks you want to see, while listening to decent music. I think there may be some food… I can’t remember but when I went it was crazy.




2) Young people. It's shocking to see how few pretty girls there are walking the streets of a city this size. Again, there's certainly a lot in Jax, but not NEARLY the amount there should be. If there's a 18-34 single demo in Jacksonville greater than a few hundred, they're hiding well.

>>>>Most of the teen girls tend to goto Town Center, Avenues, or the beach. The “hipster/scenster” girls tend to hang out in Five Points or San Marco. I am a high school senior, this city doesn’t offer much for its youth… but in ways it does. Art walk is amazing! Some exhibitions at the Cummer/*JMOMA?MOCA are interesting. Most of the restaurants in my area, five points, are nice to teenagers. Except some like Als (I just always feel like I have to tip $$ there and etc... not very homely place, I like Pizza palace better)… but I really like going to Moon River it has that nice its ok to hangout here feeling. The reason you don’t see many teens walking around is because there is nothing for teenagers to really do, besides “club night” or go to the mall, or wait for that awesome band to come to Jackrabbits, Freebirds, or Fuel. And some areas of town we still fear, ie like Springfield some teenagers are willing to goto Springfield, while some are generally scared of the Northside. The things that Jacksonville offers its youth get boring fast ie going to Casbah, Club TSI, the beach...

just my 2 cents.

[thelakelander]

Interesting.  So what are some things Jax can offer to appeal to the teenage/college crowd?  Do you feel these things should be spread out or concentrated (withing walking distance of each other)?

[Skot David Wilson]

You know I couldn't leave this one alone......
Chief demographic indicators.... amount of pawn shops, bail bondsmen, right wing reactionary god crowds, publicans (Re is NOT an option!), high school graduates, gun dealers, corporately homoginized media outlets.......
and consolidation...

It is the mix of muck here that detracts from quality of social life here.
Yes, I agree, no leaders... and when something does come up, just lip service and no community action.
Look at my fight to save Station Five. Man, in Philly or Boston or just about anywhere else, people would be up in arms. Same with Lytle, or infrastructure and the light rail issue, or political corruption...
We have a lazy &/or stupid population.
This is a scab city, with too many people making a living off the backs of those who work.
Our justice system here, how it is implemented, is simply sad. More of a money circulating venture than a social fix.
And the media is firmly in the hand of the people who like being one up on everyone else.
Please don't complain unless you are willing to take real affirmative action,
and not just the race issue kind of action.
I didn't see color until I came here. One the Jersey Shore, people were more judged on the quality of their character, and there was more of an Italian/Irish issue when I was coming up than black and white.
Funny, the two flags looked a lot alike.
So do people with the lights dim at a distance.

A bad joke....

There was this guy from Jacksonville, first in his family to go to college.
He came home and brought his fiancee' to dinner.
They sat around the table, eating, talking...
Finally the son spoke up...
"Maw, Paw, she's wonderful!
She cooks, cleans, does my laundry, is polite, and educated, and really loves me....
and Paw, she's a virgin!"
at this point Paw gets up from the table, gets a shot-gun, and shoots her...
the son exclaims "But Paw! What did you do that fer, I love her!"
Paw says "If she ain't good enough for her own family, she's ain't good enough for ours!"

If you don't know any better, then hell seems just fine...
no wonder so many people fill the churches on Sunday...
the promise of anywhere better becomes really appealing...
and a happy lie is sometimes the victor over cold hard truth.
Only problem is, the lie is bad, too.

Anyone can point to a number of reasons why Jax is so bad in so many ways, but at the end of the day we'll find it is the combonation of all the rotten that makes this place so bad, murder rate so high, and corruption such an accepted thing.

Maybe it is time to shut-up complaining about it and start doing something.
How do you think grass-roots changes start anyway?

[Galois]

Interesting.  So what are some things Jax can offer to appeal to the teenage/college crowd?  Do you feel these things should be spread out or concentrated (withing walking distance of each other)?

That's a tough question, because there is so much of my bias. This will be lengthy ;/, and probably sporadic. Jacksonville is a great city, it has alot to offer but it gets old, so fast, to realize this you have to take a vacation and come back and have a rebirth, and you will be full of the good memories you had at such-such park playing soccer with so and so, (end ramble).

It is really hard to say what teenagers will like as a whole. Jacksonville teens are a really diverse group (probably like any other teenage population in a large city). But generally the area of the highschool will determine what teens will like in that area. Except for the two magnet schools, where its students are spread out around Jacksonville. It's alot of fun having friends in Queen's Harbour and friends who live in Yulee(I mean this half sarcastically, but it's a real eye opener going from one part of the city to the next, its like back to the future and back again.) But if there were to be activities geared for teenagers, I would want them to be   spread   out, atleast until the crime rate decreases. Ironically, I wouldnt feel that safe being around a bunch of random teenagers in Jacksonville. Maybe if it was with a bunch of my friends I would feel safer. Seriously, there are a few bad apples that can ruin the whole bunch. Im sure you read the story about that teen club night was victim of a drive by. When things like that happen, it is just really depressing and scary.

I will try hard not to generalize too much or be too bias.These are the basis of types teenagers in Jacksonville.
1st type: Ignorant Ghetto Redneck (probably kids that goto the not so great schools, determined by fcat scores (I know this is a horrible basis for classification but it's true)) philistines, these kids are satisfied with simply going to the mall, watching a movie, a teen club night, causing trouble. Would scoff at the idea of seeing a play or going to hear the symphony.  This group is really easy to generalize.

2nd type: Preps this group is kind of unpredictable but you can find them at the beach/Town Center they just like to shop, catch a movie, drink beer/smoke, make a scene. 40% Chance of going to a teen club night. Maybe like 35% would be interested in Tangerine Fest( which I will explain later.) This group is hard to categorize. This is where the teens start to get fuzzy in terms of personality.

3rd. Indie/Scenester, this group can make a scene too but you will find them conglomerating heavily at a "Good" show, wether it be some theatrical production or the next hardcore band. 90% of this group has the kind of people that are interested in Tangerine Fest. Overall more freely thinking, more likely to be vegetarian, or politcally active, homosexual...

The point I'm making it will be really hard to say what Jacksonville could offer to teens, and what teens will actually do. For instance: the Jacksonville Public Library has been taking huge strides to get teenagers involved in the library and community. Art contests, Battle of the Bands, Teen created Movies. The problem with this is the advertising, there is no advertising! Thus the turn out is always sub par, and the real talent that's out there usually is clueless about the contest/event.Business owners don't really care about teenagers either. I never see any kind of after school specials, or anything that would entice me to goto X place for dinner with a couple of friend, because the owners are very nice. I guess that concept is a novelty of past? Someone needs to rennovate a building thats downtown or in a safe portion of arlington(.. there is a huge empty Walmart on merrill road!!) and make it centered for teenagers ie like just a place where teens can come get a bite to eat after school, hang out, get away from the parents, organize inter-highschool plays, maybe make some kind of informal jazz band, have good guest speakers from around the city, meet other teens who share their interests, or do something weird like have a night where kids can come get ice cream in the winter? or chili in the middle of the summer? Or perhaps do a scavenger hunt of somesort through downtown (this would have to be in the daytime haha). Of course there would be a good amount of security for any teen sponosored event. I need to start keeping a note pad of places I see that are being poorly utilized. 

The rest of teens in Jacksonville are mixes of the catagories, we have some really bright kids too. Kids that enjoy volunteering at the Symphony, Humane Society, American Red Cross. Kids that like to be involved in the community and will probably forget about Jacksonville when they go out of state for college and realize there is so much more out there waiting and asking.

To appeal to the teenagers it would be nice to see more places where it is safe to hangout, get a drink, sit back in a big comfy chair and relax, perhaps have someone from the city council talk to us about their job or something interesting. When the whole Wise thing flared up me and a couple of friends wanted to go down to the schoolboard ourselves and voice our own opinions about the matter. Everyone had a say in the whole Dr. Wise thing except the students. Thats another problem, young people in Jacksonville have no say in what goes on, or don't have any idea what is going on.

We need more establishmentss that can become like "regular" places... for instance it takes me  2 minutes on a Friday after school to find 3 or 4 people to goto Moon River with. Mainly because it's cheap, taste good, and you can sit down gossip with your friends and feel safe, without getting  a dirty look from the waitress.  Starbucks is ok, but varies location to location. There is really no teen spot in Jacksonville. More events like Tangerine Fest, an event where you goto Memorial Park get free food, play in drum circles, dance, play soccer, learn how to screen print, throw tangerines, learn how to be politically active all for FREE. Would give the younger crowd more things to do.  Maybe there should be a committee dedicated to getting artists and intellectuals to come to Jacksonville and speak and etc.

I think programs should be set up so if you are a teenager things are cheaper for you: ie Jaguar game tickets could be so much percentage off, or the play at the Times Union Center could be cheaper just because you are a teenager. I think this would cause teenagers to be more willing to do things they would not have done otherwise. I know with the rising gas prices its harder now a days to go pick x up from this side of down, then drive here to do this, buy lunch, drive here do that, then drive back to x house, then home again...


Now I will focus on the college kids.
About UNF (I know there are other colleges in Jacksonville, but I've spent more time at UNF)

Well the UNF kids should have it good… First off, the UNF kids have a lot land. This allows for intramural sports, future expansion of the campus, exploring, and then they can ride a bike to Town Center. The majority of kids I meet from UNF tend to be in packs (share same interests) and their interests vary widely ie the group you see in Five Points you probably would not see in Town center. I am kind of quirky, so if I went to UNF I would want the city to be willing to subsidize studies on Jacksonville’s economy, St Johns River, and encourage us to investigate if JTA’S/Cities plans are really the best ideas and etc… so the university would really have a voice in the community, and eventually this voice would be reflected in what gets done around town or maybe even in our schools. I know some universitys that have a huge hand in helping their school board create bright students (look at the University of Chicago's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_School_Mathematics_Project )  Students at UNF probably feel like they don’t get enough recognition for what they do around the city, thus why spend an entire semester studying something no one is going to care about or fund? I have spent alot of my Saturdays studying at UNF. I rarely see people out playing in the court yard or doing things you might see at any college campus on a weekend. Maybe on the weekdays the campus is a bit more lively and then on the weekends everyone goes partying or off campus? This makes sense though, UNF has a great location. About 15 minutes away from the beach, maybe 20 or so from downtown, and then you have town center, and the regency mall and avenues aren't that far away. So they can usually find something do. But eventually all of those things get kind of old, and the beach gets cold. So when they come downtown looking for clubs, or just a night life its not here. Some clubs have been sprouting up aimed at the young crowd for instance www.clubtsi.com and the Pearl are becoming hot spots.

I hope I answered your questions.

[KenFSU]

Interesting.  So what are some things Jax can offer to appeal to the teenage/college crowd?  Do you feel these things should be spread out or concentrated (withing walking distance of each other)?

A few near universal truths:

1. College students love booze.
2. College kids love to eat.
2. College students aren't rich.

Comparisons of schools like FSU and UF to UNF is apples and oranges, but that doesn't mean lessons can't be learned from the former. Directly across the street from both schools you'll find a concentration of bars, clubs and late-night restaurants. Students can walk across the street from their dorms or from nearby apartments, get hammered with their friends for next to nothing on any night of the week, stop by a local pizza place or deli at 2:00 in the morning, have a late night meal for (again) next to nothing, and then stumble back across the street to their homes. Even though it's got nothing to do with actual, you know, "education," it's still such a massive part of the college experience.

UNF really offers nothing even close to that. Maybe it's the "commuter school" image, or the vast expanse of land surrounding the campus, but such a scenario isn't possible over there. If you want to go out, you need to get in your car (or get a cab, which isn't affordable to most students on a regular or even weekly basis), jump on a highway, drive 10 miles to Bourbon Street, or the beach, or 20 miles to whatever other isolated club there is downtown or wherever else, do your thing, jump back in a cab, come home (forget about finding food at that time in Jax, at least not easily), etc. There are few, if any, bars and clubs in Jacksonville that "belong" to UNF and are filled with primarily UNF students like places like Floyd's, Bullwinkles, Yianni's, AJ's etc. belong to Florida State.

A freshmen should ideally be able to come to a school, live on campus, and not even need a car to have a great time. I couldn't imagine what a UNF freshmen without a car would do to occupy their leisure time, short of taking a city bus every time they want to even get an off-campus meal.

I'm not sure if it would even be possible given the layout of UNF's campus and the surrounding preserves, but man would it be nice to see some new options pop up on or directly off campus. A specific area where UNF students could go out, have a good time, and interact predominantly with other UNF students. Needless to say, they need to be concentrated, not spread out.

Speaking for Jacksonville as a whole, concentration is definitely key. You can have fifty different little bars and clubs for young people to hang out at, but if they are spread out in isolated pockets all over this massive city, there's going to be no synergy. People, especially young people, need to feel like they are in the middle of the action. Like they are in a place where something is happening. Say what you want about the Town Center, but at least it provides a centralized place in Jacksonville for people to gather. Hopefully one day downtown will provide something similar.

[thelakelander]

Bullwinkles, AJ's.....I spent a lot of time in those spots during my college days.

I'm not sure if it would even be possible given the layout of UNF's campus and the surrounding preserves, but man would it be nice to see some new options pop up on or directly off campus. A specific area where UNF students could go out, have a good time, and interact predominantly with other UNF students. Needless to say, they need to be concentrated, not spread out.

Old Dominion University is about 3 or 4 miles north of Downtown Norfolk.  With their latest dorm expansion project (University Village), they developed the area to mimick an urban commercial corridor.  Here's a few images taken from a trip up there this past Summer.

Although on campus, the dorms are constructed with an urban square block street grid


E-W streets are all residential dorms, while the single N-S street features street retail



On campus necessities, like the college bookstore, are being relocated to this stretch to serve as anchor destinations.




little spots like this have began to open up along the stretch, along with service oriented businesses to serve the residential base.


Norfolk is not Manhattan.  However, all surface parking lots are being located in the middle of these blocks, creating a continuous network of building fabric facing the streets.


So, although UNF is suburban, there's no reason something like this can't be developed there or at a school like Edward Waters or Jacksonville University.

[Skot David Wilson]

I'm glad to see posts that are more than just a few words but show real thought. It seems our views are the same. This is what I see in all of us:
1. That there ain't crap to do, for the most part, positive or to inspire "community" here for kids.
2. There isn't a "kid friendly" infrastructure in Jax, or get "the college" scene promoted, like in Richmond, which is jumpin and right next to a poor section, but isn't bad, or Monmouth College (Long Branch, NJ) near where I'm from, or anywhere else that is great for thinking college kids, which high school kids look to and want in on.
3. There isn't anything being done by COJ to get that going here.
I could go on or into more detail, but you catch my drift.
If all HS kids see is desolation, which is even in the best designed retail malls, devoid of culture, then it is easy to find and explore drugs and violence.
Kids have energy, and want to do things, and if the thing "to do" is gang bang, they will.
What other choices do they have.
Some kids are great. Some are a-holes that need to die, and most are philistines as described (rather well I might add) in the post right after my last one.
And yes, let's generalize here. Three types of people. 1. good (20%) 2. bad (20%) and 3. fluff (60%) who are along for the ride like horses with blinders on.
If the fluff don't have a positive place to grow in, they will do whatever....
and that "whatever" is media driven, which is crap culture, and selfish, and stupid, and just plain bad.
If there is something good to do, then they will find it, and most want that anyway, just can't find it, so just the few who are bright enough to will find and create good culture.
We honestly need easy to find positive cultural and social outlets for kids to explore. In an urban wasteland where bad elements roam freely, where we allow that sickness to fester, puss will ooze into everything around us, including our kids.
Maybe we should clean the wound, and start making healthy choices.
And once you clean the wound, you need to get out of the disease infested environment, into a clean one, so you don't reinfect yourself.
The problem was created with consolidation. They lost volunteer fire houses, local mayors and police stations, one town high school playing ball against another (source of town pride), mom and pop stores and places where a family has a legacy, real roots, and people knew their neighbors and looked after their own. This is a town of pawn shops, bail bondsmen, used car dealers and other blood suckers that live off of the misery of others. How hard does a cop who lives in a nice neighborhood at the beaches protect residents of a depressed area? Get the point?
So until we make those changes, not much good will ever come to pass, and change won't happen... but I refuce to allow that mind set destroy my core beliefs.
People need to stand against that and make it happen, and until they do, things will stay bad.