Riverplace Skyway station is on fire...

[Jason]

StJr, I don't think many here would argue that fact that the Skyway was illconceived and poorly planned from the beginning no matter what the influences were (political or other).  What many of us are saying is that it would be insane to abandon what could easily be a successful system for moving people in and around the downtown area.  Some of the members here make up a few of the 3,000 daily riders and I'm sure they would be upset if the system was canned or left as-is. 

Although the proposed anchor projects originally planned to work with the system have been lost, there has still been residential development that is reaping the benefits of the system and its limited reach (note the three new residential towers on the southbank).  DT Jacksonville has not grown as fast as projected 10 years ago when the system was "finished", but it HAS still grown somewhat. 

Think of Brooklyn Park.  It was/is to be another HUGE boon to the DT core and the skyway's usefulness.  Those residents would have enjoyed the added mobility from the system.  Also, the still proposed Jackson Square and Bay Street Station.  Both of which mention utilizing the skyway as an added ammenity of the development.  In fact, Bay Street Station is supposed to engulf the Jefferson station completely and integrate it into the development and Jackson Square mentions expanding the line into San Marco.

The largest missing link the lacking connection of the rest of the metro area.  Once a commuter system is up and running that will feed riders into the existing skyway, the possibilities are endless.

[tufsu1]

So if the projections were made in the early 70's and construction wasn't even started until the mid 1980's, then was it really too much to ask that someone get their calculator out and make up some new projections before deciding to waste all that money? 

once again...the skyway was funded through a Federal demonstration project...if Jax. didn't the money, some other City would have...kind of like Charlotte gettig Orlando's light rail $

[Coolyfett]

Do you, or are you trying to troll me?

Troll You?

Id like to see Jacksonville create a lifestyle for people who do not support the auto industry. Not sure if that is trolling you, it is just where I stand on the topic. Sorry for the confusion.

[Coolyfett]

So if this line was extended down riverside avenue and over the railroad tracks east of San Marco Square, imagine what you would get.

You would get more of the same. Wasted dollars on a system that does not go to the people. How many live downtown again on a FULL TIME BASIS?

That's the point. Extending into Riverside and deeper into San Marco would bring the skyway to the people WHERE THEY LIVE and take them into downtown to work & play. Also downtown IS growing in residency... people are moving there and living DT full time.

I honestly don't care if the skyway was originally built for political reasons. What I do care about is that it that it's not far off of being actually useful.

I really agree with this post by Shwaz. People actually do live in Riverside, Springfield and San Marco, some of the younger Gen X and older Gen Y lives in these areas of Jacksonville. Waiting to build the train to yulee or orange park is crazy and I never understand why people mention it. Its ok to say it is a waste of money if you love driving and live near 17 and 295, but you have people in Riverside who work in San Marco, play in Springfield and this same person has to pay for JTB to be widened or repaved. How much did JTB cost? How much did 295 cost? I mean there are many in Jax that do not use these concrete slabes, but are still forced to pay for that option of transportation. I remember when the gas prices were going crazy and some posters on here were screaming that the sky was falling!!!! Luckily for the SUV owner the gas prices dropped, but who is say what happened will not happen again and be worse then what it was. People say supply this and demand that but peoples driving habits have not changed a bit. Cars were everywhere then and they are everywhere now. Jacksonville should at least create the option for those that no longer want to deal with the pain and hassle of the auto industry.

[thelakelander]

^This is why I fully endorse the creation of a starter rail line, even if its under five miles in length.  Its taken over 40 years to complete the 295/9A loop.  It will probably take just as long to build a regional rail system that stretches into the boonies.  However, we can immediately move forward by reconnecting our urban core communities (the actual real city with decent density), giving residents a real choice of how and where they choose to live and commute.

[Ocklawaha]

That's the point. Extending into Riverside and deeper into San Marco would bring the skyway to the people WHERE THEY LIVE and take them into downtown to work & play. Also downtown IS growing in residency... people are moving there and living DT full time.

I honestly don't care if the skyway was originally built for political reasons. What I do care about is that it that it's not far off of being actually useful.

The 2.5-mile Jacksonville Automated Skyway Express is a model of efficiency. Completely automated and controlled from a central operation center

The train / system IS great! Get it to go somewhere and it would be looked up to by other cities. It was said we can have less costly and "we don't need flashy"... with that logic we might as well build a bunch of HUD houses and see if that brings people in from the burbs. A flashy effecient way to get to all the places I want to go... who needs that right?

BRAVO MI AMIGO! BRAVO! Excellent post.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

That's the point. Extending into Riverside and deeper into San Marco would bring the skyway to the people WHERE THEY LIVE and take them into downtown to work & play. Also downtown IS growing in residency... people are moving there and living DT full time.

I honestly don't care if the skyway was originally built for political reasons. What I do care about is that it that it's not far off of being actually useful.

The 2.5-mile Jacksonville Automated Skyway Express is a model of efficiency. Completely automated and controlled from a central operation center

The train / system IS great! Get it to go somewhere and it would be looked up to by other cities. It was said we can have less costly and "we don't need flashy"... with that logic we might as well build a bunch of HUD houses and see if that brings people in from the burbs. A flashy effecient way to get to all the places I want to go... who needs that right?

BRAVO MI AMIGO! BRAVO! Excellent post.

OCKLAWAHA

Please explain.  Ock, you already agreed that the $ky-high-way would not be a good candidate to go into the existing residential or historic town center areas of San Marco and Riverside.  So how is Shwaz going to fulfill the dream you proclaim as "excellent"?  He wants the expansion to "where they live".   I don't think you two are singing the same song.

As to his comment about people living downtown, they are, but as the numbers show, while downtown residency has climbed the ridership has dropped by over 40%.  So what is the correlation to "excellence" here?

This looks more like "lipstick on the pig" cheerleading.  I'm still looking for common sense on this subject.  This discussion just shows how much is missing.

[BridgeTroll]

I'm still looking for common sense on this subject.  This discussion just shows how much is missing.

There has been alot of common sense discussion on this subject.  You simply refuse to be a part of it.  Your mind is made up.  This is clear by you constant reference to the $ky-high-way.  From what I can see common sense discussion on this subject should revolve around demolition of the entire project.  This is not a common sense solution but a "throw the baby out with the bath water" solution. 

Lake, Ock and most others favor have repeatedly stated that other modes of mass transit should be expanded linking them to the skyway before adding to it.  THAT my friend IS common sense.

[Ocklawaha]

Central Station and not a sheltered link to a single passenger producing building.

That's the point. Extending into Riverside and deeper into San Marco would bring the skyway to the people WHERE THEY LIVE and take them into downtown to work & play. Also downtown IS growing in residency... people are moving there and living DT full time.

I honestly don't care if the skyway was originally built for political reasons. What I do care about is that it that it's not far off of being actually useful.

The 2.5-mile Jacksonville Automated Skyway Express is a model of efficiency. Completely automated and controlled from a central operation center

The train / system IS great! Get it to go somewhere and it would be looked up to by other cities. It was said we can have less costly and "we don't need flashy"... with that logic we might as well build a bunch of HUD houses and see if that brings people in from the burbs. A flashy efficient way to get to all the places I want to go... who needs that right?

BRAVO MI AMIGO! BRAVO! Excellent post.

OCKLAWAHA

Please explain.  Ock, you already agreed that the $ky-high-way would not be a good candidate to go into the existing residential or historic town center areas of San Marco and Riverside.  So how is Shwaz going to fulfill the dream you proclaim as "excellent"?  He wants the expansion to "where they live".   I don't think you two are singing the same song.

As to his comment about people living downtown, they are, but as the numbers show, while downtown residency has climbed the ridership has dropped by over 40%.  So what is the correlation to "excellence" here?

This looks more like "lipstick on the pig" cheerleading.  I'm still looking for common sense on this subject.  This discussion just shows how much is missing.

Same Tune stjr, all transit must have producer stations (IE: Large employment towers, hospitals etc.) During a single lunch hour a couple of large office towers should be able to produce a couple thousand riders. You also must have attractor stations (IE: Destinations, homes, condos, specialty locations etc). Places people want to go, but ususally in small groups or batches. Shwaz, and Bridge Troll get it. You must have stations that produce ridership and stations that attract those riders.
In the case of the Skyway we have no producer stations and managed to miss the attractors.

So what is the correlation to "excellence" here? The correlation is to the statement Shwaz made, "What I do care about is that it that it's not far off of being actually useful." fact is 11E, The Carlton, Metropolitan Lofts, Churchwell Lofts are all downtown and not close to the Skyway. Even The Strand and the collection of towers around it are cut off from the Skyway and have no direct access. By the time one walks around "Cape Horn" to get to Riverplace they are more likely just to drive from curbside.

You said, "I'm still looking for common sense on this subject.  This discussion just shows how much is missing." The only thing missing is your refusal to read what we have all posted. The Skyway is NOT the end all and be all of mass transit. In fact it is more of a horizontal elevator then a transit "system". But it's an elevator that only goes to 3 out of a dozen or more floors. What is missing is about 3 miles of line and stations. Without infringing on the historic districts the Skyway could still string together: Baptist Hospital, San Marco (using the railroad alignment), North Riverside - Blue Cross, FCCJ, Brooklyn, BOA, Hyatt, Berkman, Churchwell, Police Station/Jail, Baseball Grounds, Metropolitan Park, Arena, Metropolitan Stadium. Perhaps even someday a new Convention Center and Courthouse.

That's not lipstick on a pig, more like setting a couple of broken bones on Playboys Miss April... Even the surgery might be exciting.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Riverplace Station remains closed, but service has been restored to the Kings Avenue Station.

While the cause of the fire has not yet been determined, JTA spokesperson Mike Miller said it was most likely an electrical malfunction.

Eventually the station will be returned to service and will be designed to match the previous station, but that may be a while.

“It’s not even out for bid yet, so we don’t have a date when Riverplace will reopen,” said Miller.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=52191

[Jason]

At least Kings Avenue is open for buisness again.

[Southbanker]

Has this gone out for bids yet?

I have a feeling that I will be looking at that burned out roof for several more months (maybe years ).

[Omarvelous09]

Yea i found this out the hard way...was trying to get to the Peninsula via SkyWay last week. Had to walk from Kings.. i was wondering what happened.

[Ocklawaha]

It'll happen soon enough, it's all being done the old fashioned way - INSURANCE CLAIM!

OCKLAWAHA

[Southbanker]

It seems like an awful long time to do a repair that really should not be that difficult.  It seems to me that the damage was pretty limited to the roof. 

Good thing there are not many people that depend on it.  Even if it opens again I will use it less than before simply because they cut the hours.  No more taking it over to Central or Hemming for dinner at Chew.  It shuts down at 9.  And I think it shuts down at 7 on Saturdays.