Council President Richard Clark believes roads will revitalize downtown?

[thelakelander]

Interesting comment on Urban Jacksonville's Public Space is Good, But We Need To Talk Transportation Too story. 

link: http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187707

Mark Barilla Says: 05/29/2009 12:07 pm
I totally agree with nearly everything you guys post. ButI wanted to share something I heard this morning on the way to work on NPR that happens to be very coincidentally timed.

On air was Jacksonville City Council President Richard Clark and he was talking about downtown redevelopment. I don’t want to misquote (I wish there was a transcript online), but I believe he said something akin to placing emphasis on finishing all road projects downtown before starting or thinking about any further redevelopment. He placed such a strong emphasis on roadwork (I assume highway renovation as well as interior streets) and even mentioned “beautifying medians and public spaces.”

It just seems so absurd, with empty buildings scattered throughout downtown and no real attractive development going on, to beautify medians - which he then said the city could not afford to upkeep.

I hate to be a debbie downer, but I just wanted to express the pragmatic view that these are the ideals of people in charge - Portland, we aren’t, that’s for sure.

Joey Marchy Says: 05/29/2009 12:40 pm
Mark, you are 100% right, I heard the same thing, or at least Councilman Clark’s agenda came across loud and clear.

Even when asked about downtown and riverfront development by RAM director Tony Allegretti, Clark quickly shifted the conversation back to road projects.

To me that is a bit disconcerting. Stick with us though, we have a plan and we have a voice. Don’t get discouraged. This is our city too, we just need to keep being vocal and let the people in charge know that we want transportation discussions to share the spotlight with road building.

Did anyone else hear this?  Does Richard Clark honestly think road projects will bring vibrancy back to downtown and the urban core? If so, I’d be interested to see some successful examples of this type of strategy.

I’m all for improving streetscapes and beautifying medians…..if they have streetcar tracks in them! Doing such, will actually reduce the cost of installing a system and the need to maintain overgrown landscaped medians.

[fsujax]

and this is the problem.

[thelakelander]

The solution is to attack the problem head on.  Question this line of thinking PUBLICLY and pound a continuous flow of successful strategies and examples proving otherwise.  When you go on the attack with sound solid alternatives and proof that the current strategy will result in failure, uneducated arguments quickly fall a part. 

This style of attack quickly blew holes all over the dedicated busway and Adams bus mall plans and it will take Richard Clark's idealogy out to the woodshed.

[mtraininjax]

Lake - This is a clear case of sticking the dagger through the rail proposal for light rail. If the mayor and his vision is clear, using the council to develop the grand vision, over the next 2 years. Then it would seem that the Council is going to follow JTA over the cliff and down the road with road building projects. I am not a fan of the proposed BRT, as with others here, but it seems that Clark, Peyton, Blaylock and DDA are all on board for more road projects.

If you really want rail downtown or anywhere, you need to change the mindset at the top, and to do that, you really want to get some candidates for MAYOR to start promoting rail. However, don't be suprised to see the odd stares from citizens who are being taxed to death for stormwater fees, rising utility costs, and a city that its mayor wants to halt proposed pay increases.

[thelakelander]

There is no proposal for light rail and the sentiment expressed is nothing new.  It sounds like Clark isn't down for the Mayor's plan or anything that does not involve asphalt.  With transit funding already in hand, no new taxes will be required so all this calls for is a continued educational process.  If the visioning process is a true one, mobility will be a major issue discussed.  Nevertheless, I agree with finding future candidates that support mass transit.  However, that educational process on this issue has already began and must continue over the next few years.

[ChriswUfGator]

Did anyone else hear this?  Does Richard Clark honestly think road projects will bring vibrancy back to downtown and the urban core? If so, I’d be interested to see some successful examples of this type of strategy.

I’m all for improving streetscapes and beautifying medians…..if they have streetcar tracks in them! Doing such, will actually reduce the cost of installing a system and the need to maintain overgrown landscaped medians.

In fairness, I think roads are one key to downtown, but not in the way Clark is talking about.

A major improvement would be if they got rid of all the ridiculous and unnecessary one-way streets, except for Union and State. Another major improvement would be if they eliminated metered parking. Those would be great first steps.

Downtown just doesn't get enough activity to warrant every single street being one-way. It's unnecessary, confusing, and doesn't do squat for traffic control since with the exception of the aforementioned State and Union streets, there isn't much traffic to control. It also makes it a hassle to get to downtown businesses.

Metered parking is also holding economic growth downtown, as you can't do anything that takes a lot of time, when you have to continue running back to your car to feed in more quarters, or have to pay a ridiculous $25 ticket, which is especially laughable when your car is the only car anywhere nearby. I guess the City still hasn't noticed, but there isn't exactly a parking shortage downtown, what with 100 different parking lots and 20 different parking garages located all over the place.

These things just hassle people, are unnecessary, and help take the fun out of doing anything downtown.

[BridgeTroll]

There is no doubt the meters must go... Please remember however... Parking is free on all streets after 6pm.  Parking is also free on the streets all weekend long day and night.  The only time you must feed the meter is Monday through friday during working hours...

[ChriswUfGator]

There is no doubt the meters must go... Please remember however... Parking is free on all streets after 6pm.  Parking is also free on the streets all weekend long day and night.  The only time you must feed the meter is Monday through friday during working hours...

Yeah, that's usually when I go though. Probably the same for most folks. I think getting rid of meters would help everybody, especially the downtown businesses. Ditto with all the silly/dumb 1-way streets.

[thelakelander]

Chris, I would agree that the things mentioned above would help the core.  Unfortunately, as you stated, I highly doubt the projects Clark mentioned have anything to do with the logical user friendly improvements suggested above.

[mtraininjax]

Downtown just doesn't get enough activity to warrant every single street being one-way. It's unnecessary, confusing, and doesn't do squat for traffic control since with the exception of the aforementioned State and Union streets

How hard is it to read signs? They state one way if, indeed, one way? If you can read a stop light, colors that is, you can read a road sign. After all, don't people still have to read road signs to get a license?

One-ways are fine, leave them alone. No need to change them.

[thelakelander]

I think the main problem is the one way loop system.  For example, it you're on Duval and miss your left turn at Laura, you can't make another left until you reach Jefferson Street.  That's insane.  Its an obsolete traffic network that needs to disappear.

[tufsu1]

yes...one-way street systems work best when they alternate every block....if you have to go 4 blocks out of your way, that is an issue.

As for the meters, most businesses downtown close by 5 or 6pm (when the workers leave) versus staying open late...so what difference would eliminating the meters make?

[thelakelander]

I'd be happy with user friendly meters that accept other forms of payment.  Very few people walk around with a pocket full of quarters these days.  I know I have avoided visiting downtown businesses at times because I didn't have any quarters at the time.  I'm sure others have as well.  Its also difficult to identify meters with different time limits until you get out of your car.

Anyway, I guess the argument on the other end (to your statement) is why keep them?  The argument to removing meters completely, revolves around leveling the playing field and making downtown more end user friendly.  With meters, you're basically penalizing or taxing people to visit downtown's businesses and cultural establishments.  Removing them, while still enforcing a time limit to ensure proper turnover, would make parking in downtown comparable to parking in Five Points, Springfield or San Marco Square. 

[heights unknown]

He's crazy, they're all crazy. You can revitalize roads all day, all week, all month and all year, but just because the roads are revitalized does not mean that that will draw or lure new businesses, corporations, or development to the area concerned.  There has to be more to lure the aforementioned to an area than just revitalizing roads. Where did these people get their degrees?  On the internet for $10.99?  Lord help us!

Heights Unknown

[thelakelander]

^True.  A. Philip Randolph is a prime example.  It was streetscaped a couple of years ago, but its still a commercial district in need of help.