Peyton priority shifting to downtown, riverfront development

[stjr]

Ock, they used to do these laser or other pictorial projections on water curtains as part of the nightly fireworks and show at Seaworld.  Haven't been there in a while so I don't know if they still do it but it was spectacular and that was years ago.  I would imagine the technology is more advanced now and they can take it to another level.  What would be really neat would be to stage something like that (using portable pumps on barges or even permanently embedded in protected platforms in the river) every Saturday night with Jax Superbowl style fireworks, weather permitting, on the river Downtown.  Imagine the reputation and crowds Jax would attract once the word got out.  It could be paid for by DVI and merchant sponsorships and/or the extra sales taxes on revenue from Downtown hotels, bars, and restaurants.

Speaking of that, why don't we have some restaurants and bars front directly onto the Riverwalk with outdoor bands staged every 1000 feet or so.  Eat dinner, walk the walk, spend the day at RAM and take in an evening or matineee show at the Times Union Center.  See a movie or show at the Florida Theater.  Take the free trolley to the Ritz for more music and fun.  City garages and surface lots should be opened for a few dollars.  Run the Downtown Trolleys in a loop on Friday and Saturday nights to increase mobility.  Add a few extra police to improve the sense of security and direct extra traffic.

[mtraininjax]

The preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces .  In 50 to 100 years or more

How many structures downtown are 50 or 100 years old? Most that come to mind are still in need of repair or outright remodeling. How can you expect a fountain to last for 50 or even 100 years, here in jacksonville?

Some of you are speaking of the fountain as if its a tourist destination, like the Bellagio in Vegas. We will never have that kind of presentation, not enough land to build the lake that feeds those water cannons. So fix it to work, maintain it to work, and build the convention center next to the river, so that the people who come and stay in the Hyatt, have a reason to come downtown for their convention.

How many tourists come to Jacksonville for the fountain?

[Cliffs_Daughter]

How many tourists come to Jacksonville for the fountain?

I dunno....   how many come to see the lions in San Marco?

[BridgeTroll]

How many tourists come to Jacksonville for the fountain?

The fountain is for us... the residents.

[stjr]

The preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces .  In 50 to 100 years or more

How many structures downtown are 50 or 100 years old? Most that come to mind are still in need of repair or outright remodeling. How can you expect a fountain to last for 50 or even 100 years, here in jacksonville?

Mtrain, your quote from my prior post has nothing to do with what you posted as a response.  My post was about the Shipyards and JEA properties being preserved as public spaces and had nothing to do with the fountain:

Adam, I hope the Mayor pushes what could be a legacy to rival all his other accomplishments: The preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces .  In 50 to 100 years or more, these parcels will serve as monuments to his visionary leadership in preserving these spaces in the midst of what, undoubtedly, will be a far larger city, one that will truly appreciate these wide open spaces gracing the riverfront.  It is meant to be that these sites remain available to the City to develop in this manner and the Mayor should not miss this "second chance" at capturing these properties for the citizens of Jacksonville!

[urbanlibertarian]

Riverwalks and parks are great but can't we get most of this primo real estate on the tax rolls to help pay for all this other wonderful stuff everyone wants?

[tufsu1]

considering the market, not anytime soon

[mtraininjax]

Mtrain, your quote from my prior post has nothing to do with what you posted as a response.  My post was about the Shipyards and JEA properties being preserved as public spaces and had nothing to do with the fountain:

Considering that the shipyards were before the pile of dirt that sits there now, actually shipyards owned by private companies, if the city, at a later date can sell the land to a developer, who is to say that 50 to 100 years down the road, the land ever comes back to the City? Who knows what overlays will be deverloped for downtown growth between now and then.

I think we need to look no further out than 1-2 years, see what the economy brings us, and at max, look at a 10 year horizon. Economic cycles and recessions have been running about 8-10 years (2009, 2001, 1992, 1981-82). I think 50-100 is way to far out. Shoot Jax was still recovering from the fire 100 years ago.

[Adam Hollingsworth]

The JEA parcel has always been envisioned to have broad, public space on the river as part of any future development.  And although it's a little presumptuous, it does appear that the shipyards property may be back in city ownership.  Already, LandMar has spent millions on the bulkhead and riverwalk extention, which will provide riverfront access.  The question for both properties is how to maximize public space on the river, while generating long-term private development that adds to our tax base.  Jacksonville has a 40-acre Metro Park on the river.  We have a 14-acre Friendship Park on the river.  Add to that public space at JEA and shipyards, connected by a vast riverwalk, and that will be a spectacular benefit to residents and visitors alike. 

[downtownparks]

Just to throw a complete hypothetical out there....

What if the city were to ask MOSH to move to the Prime Osborn, thus giving them more room for larger exhibits, that they dont currently have. Thereby freeing up the parcel that now makes up the MOSH and Friendship park into a water front convention center? Could there be a tribute paid to the fountain in a world class design, with a water park being PART of a convention center?

[vicupstate]

The Friendship Fountain / MOSH site is under utilized to be sure.  A site that large and prime has a lot of unrealized potential, IMO.  There is a great opportunity to create some snergy and create a true destination.  The fact that so much of the site is surface parking is all you need to know to understand that. 

The MOSH building doesn't even acknowledge or engage the river or fountain at all.  Personally, I would tear down the building and build a high-rise in it's place, maybe two.  There is no better site for an office building, condo or hotel anywhere in the city. Virtually every window would have views of the fountain, the river, the bridges, and the Northbank skylline.  A single story building in that location is a tremendous under-utilization.  MOSH could be incorporated into the new project, as well as a decent visitor's center for the city. 

A convention center would work too, but wouldn't build on the existing strengths of the nearby Hyatt and Landing that the courthouse site would.     

Bottomline, that whole site needs a MAJOR do-over but with the fountain itself left intact.     


BTW, I would like to thank Mr. Hollingsworth for his many postings to this site.  Many posters to this site have been a consistent critic of Mayor Peyton on many issues.  I would count myself as chief among those.   That said, I think many of the criticisms were valid and were based on issues and not the man personally. 

For his representative to engage directly with us, says a tremendous amount about the mayor's confidence and leadership style, which is admirable.       

   

[downtownparks]

See, I think the location in relation to the skyway, multiple hotels, walkability to the Landing all make it a prime location for a convention center.

I am ready to let the fountain go, but it MUST be replaced with something as noteworthy, but make it part of a larger plan to make southbank a true destination that a fountain by itself wont.

[JeffreyS]

I love that as a posible convention center site if we could preserve the fountian.

[thelakelander]

I believe the fountain could once again be special, if fixed.  Its a local landmark and we don't have many left in the core today.  Its pretty special and unique when its working.  At some point, we need to cherish and preserve what we have left and the fountain offers a great opportunity to do that.

The major concern placing a convention center on that site would be the lack of an attached convention center hotel.  Our market can't support any more major hotels in downtown without giving someone heavy incentives on top of the money that would have to flow into the construction of a convention center.  Saying this, I guess you could build skywalk over Main Street to connect something on that site with the Crowne Plaza.  Nevertheless, cost wise, you'd spend a ton more to buy out RCB's 99 year lease and to relocate/demolish MOSH and the Maritime museum. Then once you have made that investment, you still don't have the complementing retail/dining/entertainment uses nearby that Bay Street/Florida Theater/Landing, etc. offers with the current courthouse site.

[vicupstate]

Given the T-U's financial situation, I wonder what their likelyhood of selling their property would be?  It would seem to me that they could move the printing plant to a smaller location elsewhere, and given the cutbacks, probably need less office space as well. 

That site could work as a convention center.  It is pretty big and would be on the Riverwalk, and just a short walk from the Landing.  The Skyway passes right by it, so a station could be added relatively cheaply. The McCoy's Creek 'cap' could be removed too.  The only thing missing would be the hotel, which supposedly the market can't support.