Peyton priority shifting to downtown, riverfront development

[Steve]

From the Daily Record:

-Architect Taylor Hardwick, who designed the Haydon Burns Library and Friendship Fountain, is working with the mayor’s office on the restoration of the fountain. Hardwick pointed out an image of the fountain is used by Grone Plumbing Company of Germany as its symbol for the company’s international advertising.

[Jason]

Interesting find Steve.  I would expect that Mr. Hardwick would have only the best intentions for his original masterpiece.

[Cliffs_Daughter]

If it was originally planned as a landmark and 'masterpiece', then it should have been created with the intention of being maintained better than it has been (which is not at all). I'm not saying it's Statue of Liberty status, but it is one of our recognizable symbols and does deserve a full restoration.

And I can't be the only one who thinks that this planning for development is somehow linked to the city employees not getting a raise... again... I'm referring to the 'lesser-known' ones who pretty much work to make those you have heard of look good.

[tufsu1]

From the Daily Record:

-Architect Taylor Hardwick, who designed the Haydon Burns Library and Friendship Fountain, is working with the mayor’s office on the restoration of the fountain. Hardwick pointed out an image of the fountain is used by Grone Plumbing Company of Germany as its symbol for the company’s international advertising.

but I thought most people on this site decided the Mayor had "evil" intentions....what gives?

[thelakelander]

The Mayor will listen if enough people don't like the proposals he puts forth.  Thus the death of the Big Idea, the Landing agreement, Cecil Field, Trail Ridge and Friendship Fountain kiddie pool replacement.

[Adam Hollingsworth]

The Mayor spoke with Taylor Hardwick before announcing his riverfront access push last week.  And, the Mayor will meet more formally with Mr. Hardwick next week to discuss the full 14 acres known as Friendship Park.  While discussion about the fountain is important, remember, the site is more than that and we need a community conversation on the whole, not just part.  That's what we will be looking for...and look forward to having this forum's continued engagement.

[Ocklawaha]

The Mayor spoke with Taylor Hardwick before announcing his riverfront access push last week.  And, the Mayor will meet more formally with Mr. Hardwick next week to discuss the full 14 acres known as Friendship Park.  While discussion about the fountain is important, remember, the site is more than that and we need a community conversation on the whole, not just part.  That's what we will be looking for...and look forward to having this forum's continued engagement.

Adam, give me a call or see me at ...... (well you know). Anyway, if I can help in ANY WAY to get the transit money headed our way, vintage streetcars or Skyway, rail etc... just give me a call. I will put my whole spirit into it for free, it's my passion.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

TUFSU.  What really is the point of the extremely labored sarcasm?

Stephen, its really quite simple....

1. I'm a sarcastic person

2. I don't think the Mayor ever had a plan to "destroy" Frienship Fountain

Sure, he may have considered replacing it with some type of interactive fountain and he still might be....but if it draws people to the park and they have fun, what's wrong with it?

[thelakelander]

Sure, he may have considered replacing it with some type of interactive fountain and he still might be....but if it draws people to the park and they have fun, what's wrong with it?

It would be the elimination of another unique Jacksonville landmark.  Looking at the holes in our downtown, this strategy has failed and we should move on from it.  Why continue to eliminate our few remaining unique treasures for gimmicks that every city has?  What would really make the place special is to find a way to incorporate the landmark into a new park plan.  If we want an interactive fountain, there are a few acres of surface parking lots on that property where it could be accomodated in addition to the restoration of the landmark fountain.

[Keith-N-Jax]

I agree the city owns alot of land they can tinker with. Just restore the fountain and move on to the next project.

[tufsu1]

Lake...I think the holes in downtown are created by tearing buildings down without putting something up in place...

But progress can be ok...for example, the new Federal Courthouse....its pretty nice but what stood there before?
Same with the new Library....while its design may not be ideal, it is clearly a benefit to our downtown.

In the case of the fountain, I believe that Mayor Peyton understands its iconic status....but that doesn't mean it can't be improved...let's see what Hardwick and HDR copme up with.

[stjr]

The Mayor spoke with Taylor Hardwick before announcing his riverfront access push last week.  And, the Mayor will meet more formally with Mr. Hardwick next week to discuss the full 14 acres known as Friendship Park.  While discussion about the fountain is important, remember, the site is more than that and we need a community conversation on the whole, not just part.  That's what we will be looking for...and look forward to having this forum's continued engagement.

Adam, I hope the Mayor pushes what could be a legacy to rival all his other accomplishments: The preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces .  In 50 to 100 years or more, these parcels will serve as monuments to his visionary leadership in preserving these spaces in the midst of what, undoubtedly, will be a far larger city, one that will truly appreciate these wide open spaces gracing the riverfront.  It is meant to be that these sites remain available to the City to develop in this manner and the Mayor should not miss this "second chance" at capturing these properties for the citizens of Jacksonville!

As a respected adviser of his, I would hope you could prompt him to elevate this project as a priority of his administration.

See the MJ thread at http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4434.0.html for more discussion on this topic including my posts below:

NY City has Central Park.  Washington DC has the Mall.  San Francisco has Golden Gate Park.  Philadelphia has the Benjamin Franklin Parkway/Fairmount Park.  Boston has Boston Commons.  And Jacksonville has .....?

Most great cities of the world have places where hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people can gather at one time for great celebrations and events in their downtown areas. Jacksonville has Hemming Plaza! 

After hosting the Super Bowl in 2005, the Jax community should be more aware than ever of the value of, and need for, a mega-site consisting of dozens of urban acres to host major events of local, regional, national, or global importance. The SB host committee utilized two such sites for their event (one for concerts, the other for the NFL experience), both still unused, but neither currently on the drawing boards for retention by our community as event sites.

These two sites are the Shipyards property along the river on the Northbank and the former JEA Southside Generating Plant property on the Southbank. Either, or both, of these sites should be a priority for preservation as public spaces to allow Jax to host super-large events, festivities, and gatherings as its population, and hoped-for national influence and reputation, grow.  Without such venues, Jacksonville's capacity to host large events will be forever limited, much more so than even by a convention center which could hold only a fraction of the people utilizing an outdoor venue.

Think about the up to 2 million people that visited DC for the inauguration.  Or the hundreds of thousands in Central Park for a concert.  Or the 1 million that have gathered in Philly for a spring festival.  Jax can barely accommodate a few thousand for fireworks, mostly spread out for miles along the downtown river banks.

And, should Jax lose the aforementioned sites, where and how would we be able to host an event like the Super Bowl again?  Where could we place tens of thousands of visitors like that in the future?

We can always find a couple of city blocks for a convention center (I think the courthouse site could spare a few!), but finding dozens of acres downtown in the future will be nearly impossible to replicate.  (Hey, maybe a new convention center could be co-located on such a site.)

NOW is the time for Jax to step up and secure one or both of these mega-sites, or forever mortgage our opportunity to be a host to big time events. Both sites are in indefinite limbo, their values depressed due to the economy.  Why not utilize/reinvest/bond some of our hotel taxes or other tourists revenues to acquire these lands today.

Some interesting numbers for urban parks:

Fairmount Park, Philadelphia: 9,200 acres total; 4,400 core (by the way, laid out by William Penn in the 1600's, some 200 years before Central Park!)
Golden Gate Park, San Francisco: 1,017 acres
Lincoln Park, Chicago: 1,200 acres
Central Park, NYC: 843 acres
National Mall, Washington, DC: 309 acres
Boston Commons: 50 acres
Springfield Park, Jacksonville: 37 acres!!!!

Why are we acting as if park space downtown is finite?  Why can't we have all the existing park areas mentioned and add new parks at JEA and/or the Shipyards?  These choices don't have to be mutually exclusive.  This satisfaction with the status quo is what keeps Jax from moving forward as a City. 

If Lake is suggesting adding the Shipyards to Metro Park, that would be a great idea.  Much of the land in Boston along the Charles River is public parkland.  Much of the land around San Francisco Bay is the same.  Fairmount Park lines the Schuylkill River in Philly.  Much of the land lining the Potomac in Washington is parkland. It's a fact that cities prefer parks with waterfront! We are fortunate to have some of the best waterfront in the world and we have little more than 20 foot +/-  wide and paved riverwalks to show for it.

The cost today of buying these lands will pale to their future value when Jax "grows up" into a truly big city.  Imagine the value of Central Park's land today versus the mid-1800' s when it was founded.  I am sure it was never considered "cheap" but it is now priceless!  Add to it the value it has added to the quality of life in NY and to its economy over those same 200 years. 

Where will Jax be in 25, 50, 100, or 200 years? Does anybody in this town think in those terms?  It appears not.  Folks, we are talking about a legacy to future generations, not what it means to today or tomorrow.  William Penn had more foresight in the 1600's than Jax does in 2009!  It's time to start thinking outside the box.

By the way, JEA, is a city-owned authority, putting it's land already in the public domain.  It should offer the land as part of its compensation to the City which owns it.  Remember, JEA has a few billion in assets.  Twenty, thirty, or forty million in land is not going to break it, especially if it's amortized over several years.

And, if the City can find tens of millions for a stadium upgrade that might not last more than another 20 or 25 years, why can't it find a lesser amount for land that will last "forever"!

In the end, where there is a will, there is a way.  Let's start practicing it in our community!

[Charles Hunter]

a lawn sprinkler ... ooops, excuse me, an "interactive aquatic play space" is not an improvement on Friendship Fountain.  If an interactive fountain is wanted, put it next to to FF, or elsewhere in the park.  Fix the doggone thing, so it can reclaim it's former glory!

[thelakelander]

But progress can be ok...for example, the new Federal Courthouse....its pretty nice but what stood there before?
Same with the new Library....while its design may not be ideal, it is clearly a benefit to our downtown.

Or progress could be tearing down the old post office (Hogan & Adams) and replacing it with the vacant Furchgott's box on the corner today.  Or blowing up the Imperial Theater for the metal parking deck across the street from 11 East.  Or taking out the wharfs and replacing them with surface parking.

The difference between what the Federal Courthouse replaced and Friendship Fountain, is that the Fountain is a local landmark.  The courthouse replaced vacant retail boxes and a hotel that replaced an architectural jewel before them.  As for the library, what's ok could have been great if they found a way to incorporate the Rhodes Building and some of the other historic structures on that block or built it on a surface parking lot instead.  That way we could have had an extra block of historic building stock and eliminated one of our many surface lots littering the core.

In the case of the fountain, I believe that Mayor Peyton understands its iconic status....but that doesn't mean it can't be improved...let's see what Hardwick and HDR copme up with.

From my experiences, the best urban spaces find a way to preserve important structures and landmarks while integrating them with new uses.  Preserve the landmark by fixing the pumps and use creativity to address the reconstruction of the rest of the site and proper integration with the uses surrounding it (MOSH, River City Brewing, Maritime Museum, surface lots).  With this method, we can turn an ok improvement into a great one that incorporates new and old.

[Ocklawaha]

I'd love to see the fountain shoot for the tallest water jet in the world or some other stunning things such as the water projection theater effects. We could place photos of the beautiful city treasures and bounce them off the water curtain, maybe even put it to music. If y'all have never seen these they can be stunning.

















OCKLAWAHA