Mayor John Peyton: Investing in Jacksonville's Future

[JaxNole]

A bit off-topic, but what can we do about leasing the ground-level spaces in the Everbank building?  Downtown workers would have more choices and could get there via the Riverside Trolley/PCT.

[thelakelander]

TheLakelander -- Nice job on the live blogging from the Mayor's downtown/river rollout yesterday.  We also appreciate the expansive coverage and pictorial references to put the vision in context.

Thanks, we had a good response mixing live blogging with pictorial references.  This is something we plan to revisit.

As you know, the Mayor has been talking about a river access program for some time...you can count on the next two years as a time of investment, community conversation and the development of action plans ready to implement.  We'll need the help from the folks on this forum to make it a reality.

No problem, many of those who participate here will definitely be involved in an effort to make many of the things mentioned yesterday a reality.

Yesterday was really exciting for me personally.  It's fair to say that we've been a bit beaten up of late.  It was great to be talking about something that builds momentum and gets the creative juices flowing.  This is my home and my wife and I are raising a child here.  We love spending Saturdays at the Riverside Arts Market.  Our son never tires of being outside.  What the mayor will be putting in place isn't just a vision -- these are the places my family, his family and your families will be enjoying long after our term ends.  This is not about the crisis of the moment, it's about making our home a better place 20, or even 50, years from now.  Adam Hollingsworth, Chief of Staff, Mayor John Peyton

Thanks for the insight from the Mayor's Office.  I'm looking forward to seeing what evolves out of this process.

[vicupstate]

One thing that Peyton can do that will help his successor tremendously, is to finally make the politically difficult decisions that the next mayor would then not have to spend political capital on.  He is not running for any office anyway, so what has he got to lose?

For instance, decide once and for all, WHERE the convention center is going to go.  Decide where the eventual replacement for the jail will go. Go ahead and buy or set aside the land for these, so that there will be some 'concrete' around these decisions. 

Decide what is going to be done with the toxic sites DT, like the Parkview Inn and Hogan's Creek.  Decide how the FBC and alcohol-serving establishments are going to peacefully co-exist DT.   

If the next mayor can come in with a completely developed and vetted plan, along with some HARD decisions already made, then they can immediately get about the business of implementing it while they still  have a honeymoon with the citizens.

[JaxNole]

I fully agree with you, vic.  The decision making has been unimpressive, especially from a mayor who reportedly has a strong business background.

I hope Mayor Peyton succeeds in forgetting about the trepidation and firmly stands on his decisions (with sound logic).

[stjr]

Maybe the mayor was reading this thread below.  I was happy to see the version of this story in the paper include the Shipyards and JEA sites as potential public spaces as I had advocated with the thread:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4434.0.html

[zoo]

For instance, decide once and for all, WHERE the convention center is going to go.  Decide where the eventual replacement for the jail will go. Go ahead and buy or set aside the land for these, so that there will be some 'concrete' around these decisions. 

Decide what is going to be done with the toxic sites DT, like the Parkview Inn and Hogan's Creek.  Decide how the FBC and alcohol-serving establishments are going to peacefully co-exist DT. 

Glad the jail was included here. I would add, figure out the social service concentration problem.

(Suspecting I'll get an earful for this, but it IS a problem)

[heights unknown]

The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday.  I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where?  To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement.  Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday.  So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it?  Do we really want the 4th floor coming up with solutions on their own instead of engaging the urban community?

We can dig up old plans, but they don't specifically address the courthouse, shipyards and JEA sites.  Looking back, the 2000 Downtown Master Plan is conceptual at best but its no where near a being a real vision plan.  We can go with Zyscovich's visioning process, but its not even complete and it does not even address the downtown core.  We can go back to the old plans that eliminated LaVilla, but who wants to implement more of that nonsense.  We can go back to the plan for a pedestrian mall around Hemming, but JCPenney, May-Cohens, Woolworths and Ivey's are no longer there to anchor it.  We demolish 11 East and countless other buildings to make room for Jack Diamond's downtown mall (DC style, not shops) but does that really get us anywhere?  We could also go back to Peyton's plan to take out Friendship Fountain, the Landing and to install hot dog charts on the Main Street Bridge.  However, if we really want progress, its best to keep that bad idea six feet under.

Personally, coming from Peyton, I'll take this approach with him.  Because the last plan "The Big Idea" was a disaster and the last pocket park was a waste of financial resources.  I would hate to see something like those ideas forced on these downtown sites because we simply want to see action, hell or high water.

It may be me, but I had already come to the conclusion that Peyton's true legacy project would be either the courthouse or Trail Ridge Landfill.  Whether its the Shipyards, a new convention center or figuring out what to do with Friendship Fountain, there is a need to develop true strategies and funding solutions for these sites.  Now if it should take two years completely another story.
[/quote

The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday.  I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where?  To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement.  Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday.  So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it?  Do we really want the 4th floor coming up with solutions on their own instead of engaging the urban community?

We can dig up old plans, but they don't specifically address the courthouse, shipyards and JEA sites.  Looking back, the 2000 Downtown Master Plan is conceptual at best but its no where near a being a real vision plan.  We can go with Zyscovich's visioning process, but its not even complete and it does not even address the downtown core.  We can go back to the old plans that eliminated LaVilla, but who wants to implement more of that nonsense.  We can go back to the plan for a pedestrian mall around Hemming, but JCPenney, May-Cohens, Woolworths and Ivey's are no longer there to anchor it.  We demolish 11 East and countless other buildings to make room for Jack Diamond's downtown mall (DC style, not shops) but does that really get us anywhere?  We could also go back to Peyton's plan to take out Friendship Fountain, the Landing and to install hot dog charts on the Main Street Bridge.  However, if we really want progress, its best to keep that bad idea six feet under.

Personally, coming from Peyton, I'll take this approach with him.  Because the last plan "The Big Idea" was a disaster and the last pocket park was a waste of financial resources.  I would hate to see something like those ideas forced on these downtown sites because we simply want to see action, hell or high water.

It may be me, but I had already come to the conclusion that Peyton's true legacy project would be either the courthouse or Trail Ridge Landfill.  Whether its the Shipyards, a new convention center or figuring out what to do with Friendship Fountain, there is a need to develop true strategies and funding solutions for these sites.  Now if it should take two years completely another story.

Then I think he should wait until he has everything in a basket, including the money, before coming out with half hatched plans which draw question marks when you read them.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday.  I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where?  To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement.  Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday.  So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it? 

From a project management perspective:
1.  Brainstorm
  a.  Funding sources
  b.  Potential contractors
  c.  Identify obstacles to projects implementation
  d.  Identify project champions

2.  Swiftly strategize a PR/communication campaign to
  a.  Raise community awareness (i.e., take a cue from Mayor Delaney re: BJP)
  b.  Make repeatedly known meeting dates and locations and allow a six-week lead time
  c.  Present plan with excitement, that despite the economy, this vision is worth seeing through to fruition

3.  Engage community leaders, especially those most averse to this administration's performance, to convey this can be done

4.  Resolve to remain transparent, available and open to community input

There are many items that can be done before the projects go live that carry minimal cost.  

Pre-planning is just as important as implementation.

Now this is management strategy at its best; what College did the mayor graduate from?  Great job JaxNole, great job...THIS is what I am talking about!

Heights Unknown

[JaxNole]

Now this is management strategy at its best; what College did the mayor graduate from?  Great job JaxNole, great job...THIS is what I am talking about!

Heights Unknown

Thanks, Heights.  That's just from a PM perspective.  A business analyst perspective could include:

1.  What is the exact objective of the vision?
   a.  Why is the vision being unveiled now?
   b.  What needs will be filled?
   c.  What has previously been attempted and why did it not meet expectations?
   d.  What were the previous lessons learned?
   e.  What changes were implemented from the lessons learned?
   f.   What determines which projects are included in the scope?

2.  How will the visioning process unfold?
   a.  Who are the stakeholders?
   b.  Who are the resources?
   c.  When will the visioning process begin?
   d.  What are the milestones of the process?

3.  What value will come from this vision?
   a.  How will value be qualified and quantified?
   b.  How will negative perceptions be transformed into positive ones?
   c.  How will ROI be determined?

4.  Requirements...etc....

I agree with Mr. Hollingsworth that this is not to be viewed as a crisis situation; rather, a sustainable enhancement to future generations' quality of life.  There needs to be a balance between delving too deeply into details (which may lead to plan shelving, cost overruns) and hastily acting.

Two years sounds like a long time, but what do I know?  I work in the private sector where we lose money as each day passes that we do not have a product ready for consumption.  Which brings me back to pre-planning.  Circle back, on repeat.

[Coolyfett]

Hmmm interesting

[brainstormer]

I think it is great to be talking about investing in downtown again.  However, I think the city needs to take a more holistic approach to certain areas of the urban core.  Focusing only on outdoor spaces won't turn the downtown around.  There are two types of projects.  One group includes smaller projects like extending the Riverwalk on the Southbank.  The other includes larger projects like reworking Metro park, the old JEA site and the Brooklyn area.  Plans for these areas should not only include public spaces, but also the vision for residential and retail components.  Let's make live, work and play a reality for people!  To make this happen, the city needs to start building public private partnerships to get blighted areas developed.

Here is an example off the top of my head.  Let's pick the Brooklyn area (between park street and riverside and with BCBS and the skyway master station on the ends).  To me this is an area for prime development.  So let's contact Novare (the atlanta based affordable condo company who once looked at developing here) and the Hallmark Developers, and maybe the CEOs of some companies we would like to be or should be headquartered here, or some other notable developers from Jacksonville and sit down and create a vision for the whole area.  You might even invite the thriving Everbank, BCBS and Fidelity.  That area developed would be great for their employees and businesses.

And then we ask, what can the city do?  A great urban park on the corner of forest and riverside (parks within walking distance are attractive for residents), a skyway extension (fed dollars? and we know many young professionals are much more willing to embrace mass transit), maybe help with the utility infrastructure, a TIF district, etc.  And in return we say to the developers this is the type of neighborhood we envision.  Can we make this work?  Will you invest in our city if we all work together to make it happen?  The new interchange will be done soon, the riverwalk is attractive and has new artwork, RAM is a huge success and within walking distance, Riverside and downtown are both within biking distance.  I'm not a developer, but obviously clustering office, residential, and retail together is positive and attractive.

My point is we need to sell our city!  If we sit back and wait for it to happen, no one is going to come here on their own.  They are going to go to Charlotte, Denver, Nashville.  This same process could happen for the potential shipyards site, and metro park.  How can we extend downtown and stop creating little bubbles of positive that struggle to survive on their own?  Peyton was right when he said the economy will turn around so the time for planning is now.  I miss the days of developer announcements of potential big projects.  There are still a lot of cities who are building, so it is possible.
 

[Ocklawaha]

A "Gateway" between Brooklyn and downtown? Just add streetcar or skyway (depending on which street you choose). Here's a few samples from history, then and now.








We also once had an arch which stood at the foot of the Ferry Landing in downtown. It advertised the "gateway" to Dixieland Trolley Park, which is interesting as the Trolley didn't reach the park but excursions went to the landing, hence by ferry to the Southside park. By the time South Jacksonville Municipal Railways came about Dixieland was long gone, leaving only treaty oak to mark it's location.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Still can't find the key photo I'm looking for, but I'll post it when I do, it's another cool streetcar arch. This one came up in my file but a streetcar would make it all the more "cool".

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

A bit off-topic, but what can we do about leasing the ground-level spaces in the Everbank building?  Downtown workers would have more choices and could get there via the Riverside Trolley/PCT.

The ground spaces in the Everbank are empty because the owners of the building, all the tenants, could not get the restaurant to commit and thus it sits empty in a depressing commercial real estate market, http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/10/20/daily17.html. I read in the Atlanta paper this weekend that there are something like 7 million square feet of empty spaces available in ATL for strip centers and commercial space. Look around Jax, there is plenty of it available as well.

One thing of interest though, in hispanic and latin areas of Atl, more restaurants and higher rent rates are being found. They are self funding as restaurant equipment can be found off leases for 20 cents on the dollar. The Riverside area is a residential area, and with the changes going on in 5 points, perhaps it will take a bit longer for someone to take the risk of such a large space in the lobby of the Everbank building. We shall see if O'brothers, the new sushi bar, and the changes at Fuel, will be around in a few years. It may take that long to get someone to risk being in the Everbank building.

[mtraininjax]

I think it is great to be talking about investing in downtown again.  However, I think the city needs to take a more holistic approach to certain areas of the urban core.  Focusing only on outdoor spaces won't turn the downtown around.  There are two types of projects.  One group includes smaller projects like extending the Riverwalk on the Southbank.  The other includes larger projects like reworking Metro park, the old JEA site and the Brooklyn area.  Plans for these areas should not only include public spaces, but also the vision for residential and retail components.  Let's make live, work and play a reality for people!  To make this happen, the city needs to start building public private partnerships to get blighted areas developed.

Great idea. One problem, the Mayor is so scatterbrained, why should we believe he will stick to his focus of downtown?  Downtown should have been his agenda Day 1 of his second term. Hollingsworth and the PR machine of the mayor's office should have been promoting it every day. At every meeting, promote, promote, promote, we should be so sick of hearing about downtown right now, and yet we are lethargic at best.

My ideas for downtown: Turn the southbank areas around Baptist and Nemours into more medical complexes. Take the empty lots and buildings and add to the Jax Ortho Institute and other medical buildings, turn the area into a medical powerhouse complex. Use the northbank area for the Convention center, open up more green spaces along the river for the people to use the river and to play ball/soccer on the northbank, perhaps shipyards, perhaps Lavilla, since it now just sits empty.

Riverside is residential and that has been the big draw for the Riverside Artists Market. It is so close to the residential part of Jax. That is why it works. Had the City put it in Hemming Plaza, it would and did draw a few people at best, but not the critical mass of a real residential neighborhood. Brooklyn needs more residents to be able to do ANYTHING like what Riverside has done. Not an easy market to build in or lease in, but if there is a mix of what 5 points and Shops of Avondale offer to the residents who would live in Brooklyn, it can and will work. But someone has to build residences in Brooklyn, and they need to be high enough to see out to the river.

Brooklyn is the missing piece in the puzzle to connect Riverside/Avondale to downtown. You fix Brooklyn, you can prove to me that the Mayor has created his lasting vision, and his 8 years were not a waste.