Florida legislature's screw up eliminates state from future stimulus funds

[thelakelander]

   When is the next election?  More reason why we should use the rest of the BJP money already set aside for rapid transit on rail.  Our leader's actions continue to hurt the state's position to recieve transportation help from the federal government.

• During his report, Florida Department of Transportation District No. 2 Secretary Charles Baldwin said with the Florida Legislature’s recent sweeping of $120 million from the transportation trust fund and the governor’s impending signature, the state will no longer be able to potentially receive redistributed stimulus funds. The funds would be available if transportation projects from other states were deemed ineligible, or if other state officials didn’t accept such funds. The taking from the trust fund, said Baldwin, violated a “maintenance of effort” stipulation that was included in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act for transportation and infrastructure projects that required states to maintain funding effort from the date of the enactment â€" Feb. 17, 2009 â€" through Sept. 30, 2010. “We can no longer stand in line,” said Baldwin.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=52384

[Joe]

I'm not exactly sure that this is a bad thing. Everything I've read about the stimulus seems to indicate that the Feds are only going to partially fund projects and leave the states hanging out to dry for the total bill. Lots of state gov officials are complaining that the stimulus is mostly a two-faced ploy to get them to begin ill-advised projects that the state will ultimately have to fund most of itself anyway.

Half the reason why commuter rail and streetcars are superior to BRT is because Jax would get more bang for its buck. Not because Big Brother is dangling someone else's money in front of us.

Like you said, the BJP means that Jax could fund the transportation projects if the city actually wants to. The stimulus is irrelevant.

[Joe]

You know, I also wanted to add that this is probably a GOOD thing. A lot of Florida's insfrastructure projects that qualified for the stimulus were a bunch of nonsense. (i.e. over a billion dollars to build a semi-truck tunnel to bypass downtown Miami).

Throw in the fact that there's no way in hell the stimulus would have actually funded any true mass transit in Jax ... I say good riddance. The benefit of South Florida losing out on their wasteful infranstructure projects outweighs the loss of the one-in-a-million fantasy scenario that Jax would 1) receive stimulus money, and 2) use it to promote urbanism.

[thelakelander]

In the grand scheme of things, BJP funds will only get us so far.  Putting ourselves (statewide) in position to land stimulus dollars helps our overall transportation efforts.  It would be up to Florida to funnel money into worthwhile projects, but to completely eliminate the option from discussion is shortsighted at best.

[Charles Hunter]

According to the link below, the Jacksonville area is getting several stimulus projects - including completing the 6-lanes on Beach between Hodges(?) and San Pablo, completing four lanes on A1A up near Callahan, and an overpass on Branan Field-Chaffee.  Also, several local projects got stimulus funds, totalling about $25 million.
This link: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/economicstimulus/ shows the project lists.
Scroll down a little bit and click on "Recommended State Level Projects" to see the three I listed above (>$100 million), and then on "Recommended Local Level Projects" and go to Page 3 of the PDF to see the projects by county for this area. 

The Billion Dollar tunnel you mention in Dade County is not listed.  The entire state of Florida only got about 1.7 Billion Stimulus Dollars for transportation in all the categories linked on that page.  Are you sure that tunnel's not an earmark?  From what I've heard, earmark (turkey, pork barrel, pick your term) projects typically fit the criticisms you raise: not enough earmark money to complete the project, selected by the Congress member - possibly at the urging of lobbyists and campaign contributors, and outside the normal project selection process.

To remind everyone of the point made earlier, in another stimulus thread, none of the Jacksonville transit projects we want (well, except mtrain) - streetcars, commuter rail, etc - are anywhere near "shovel ready."  Thus, the can't get stimulus money.

[stjr]

You know, I also wanted to add that this is probably a GOOD thing. A lot of Florida's infrastructure projects that qualified for the stimulus were a bunch of nonsense. (i.e. over a billion dollars to build a semi-truck tunnel to bypass downtown Miami).

Throw in the fact that there's no way in hell the stimulus would have actually funded any true mass transit in Jax ... I say good riddance. The benefit of South Florida losing out on their wasteful inf ranstructure projects outweighs the loss of the one-in-a-million fantasy scenario that Jax would 1) receive stimulus money, and 2) use it to promote urbanism.

Joe, I agree.  Pouring more dollars into road projects is just perpetuating urban sprawl.  Just look at the Outer Beltway.  Thank goodness this isn't a stimulus project and that the State can't afford it.  I hope when the private sector builders they solicit run the feasibility numbers (maybe the State should do this on its own funded projects!) it fails miserably and dies a natural death.  There are advantages to being nearly bankrupt I guess.  Common sense becomes a lot more valuable. 

[stjr]

By the way, our local coverage of the state sucks.

No one covers it in any meaningful way.

Best coverage of the State is the half hour "Capitol Report" compiled by the Florida Public Radio Network ( http://www.wfsu.org/fprn/index.html ) that runs at, I think, 6:00 or 6:30 PM Fridays (other weekdays?) on WJCT 89.9 when the legislature is in session.  This program gives great insights into the legislature.  It's not for the feint of heart as it is truly scary what goes on in Tallahassee!  If more people listened in, found out how nasty things are in the State capitol, and demanded more accountability, maybe the State would be a lot better off.

[thelakelander]

I was a stakeholder in this process.  The group I was a part of was responsible for the transit friendly alternative that was just rejected in favor of the trend scenario.

Btw, our local coverage does need to improve.  I spend more time checking out media in other cities to find out information, issues and projects that also impact Jacksonville.

[tufsu1]

Once again...the trend scnerio is poorly named...its actually the local comp. plans...which of course are developed (in theory) with full citizen participation....so it may in fact be better that the TPO voted to go forward with this scenario

In the long-term, there needs to be lots of discussion about changing regional growth patterns...the process that Lake was a stakeholder in was Step 1 in that discussion....the big Reality Check event next Thursday is Step 2....and the regional visioning process tht will follow will be Step 3.

Unfortunately, the TPO long-range plan couldn't wait...the Federal deadline for adoption is December 2009...and they still have to develop a list of Needs Plan and Cost Feasible Plan projects that match up with projectd growth....of course, the TPO fully updates the LRTP every 4-5 years...so hopefully the regional visioning process will be complete and all the cities/counties will buy-in by the time the next update starts (probably around 2013).

[stjr]

I am suspicious of all these processes.  In the end, no matter the process, developers get what they want, more urban sprawl.  Just witness the Outer Beltway, coming to a developer near you, like it or not.  By the time we get mass transit and high density development, the damage will have been irrevocably inflicted on Northeast Florida, and for that matter, the entire State.

All these visioning and planning exercises mean nothing in Florida.  Just look at the joke made of the Comprehensive Plans.  And, where are there any real constraints on urban sprawl or incentives for higher density?  Lake, I hate to say it, but you shouldn't be surprised you were ignored.  Nothing stops the developer fueled steamrollers with their lackey politicians at the controls.  All these pseudo organizations and their "hearings" are mere covers for what really goes on in the back rooms.  Don't be fooled.

[thelakelander]

^I'm not suprised the alternate was not accepted.  I'm suprised it made it as far as it did through the various groups.  It just goes to show that there is a base of people out there who do believe that our current way of doing things needs to be revamped.

[tufsu1]

FYI...the Outer Beltway is the #1 prioririty project for the TPO....as represented by the elected officials from Clay and St. Johns counties...and probably Duval too....if you don't like it, stop electing these people!

[thelakelander]

I agree.  If you want real change, look at who we continue to elect into local offices.  Make these people actually address issues like growth and mobility during their campaigns instead of worrying about whether they are Republican, Democrat or how much money does their family have.

[stjr]

As a Duval resident, I didn't get to vote for many of them.  And when I can, I am voting against these types of people including many serving at the State level.  Unfortunately, too many voters make decisions based on other factors that are often of lesser impact on our daily lives but act as political hot buttons.  It represents the shallowness of our society in my opinion and is very frustrating to watch.  It's why money for image advertising counts more for who wins an election than who is best for us on the substantive issues.  And since such money comes so much from special interests, you see these results.

[tufsu1]

that is overreacting and bordering on absurd....again, planners don't make decisions, elected officials do...and most MPOs don't have any legislative power...

If you want to change that, I suggest creating a true regional governmental body, as the Minneapolis-St. Paul and Portland areas have...similar to what Jax. did in 1968 when voters approved consolidation