(KBJ) Keeping Back Jacksonville: Before and After

[Ocklawaha]

Now that the damage is done, I see opportunity! What a location for another Tattoo parlor, pub, or 7-11 store. Let's see some REAL development in downtown.

Ocklawaha

[avonjax]

I have a couple of comments to make:
Archiphreak, if KBJ had other intentions, even with looming financial issues, they should have made that intent clear. It would have sparked at least some good will.
And I-10, it is necessary to rehash these issues because THEY CONTINUE TO HAPPEN as most of Jacksonville sits back and could'nt care less as downtown's last shreds of history of any age meet the wreaking ball.
And as a side note, you seem to love to antagonize.

[thelakelander]

Lakelander, calm down or you'll give yourself a stroke.

Seriously I'm fine.... the AGHHHH... was just a playful response to the post above.

[thelakelander]

Now that the damage is done, I see opportunity! What a location for another Tattoo parlor, pub, or 7-11 store. Let's see some REAL development in downtown.

Ocklawaha

Since nothing is going on with the dirt, maybe its a good spot for a community garden?

[I-10east]

And as a side note, you seem to love to antagonize.

Believe me Avonjax, I'm so not that guy; In fact I mostly agree with most peeps on Metrojax concerning alotta issues; Many times, I don't post on something that I agree with. It's just the people who think that everytime a parking lot is built it's the end of the world that I think is being unrealistic; Hell, on one thread about a hotel with a parking lot on Wells Road in OP, and some guy was bitchin' about that! A hotel in the suburbs for godsake! Just like when interstate hwys cuts off streets and creates dead ends; Nobody likes that, but sometimes it's a necessary evil. Someone to think that a city isn't gonna have dead ends, surface parking lots, and all pedestrian traffic, no cars and buses is being very foolish; I really do believe that some peeps on Metrojax really think that a city supposed to be that way. 

My bad Lake; I had to put 2 and 2 together from on my post when I said "I'm gonna scream" then you screamed. LOL! Thanks Steve, Copper, Lunican, Avonjax and Vicupstate for yall well spoken takes.

[fsujax]

Just a note, that was not FBC, never was a FBC building.  The overgrown parking lot looks great. It does wonders for that part of Downtown. Good job KBJ.

[I-10east]

Just a note, that was not FBC, never was a FBC building.

I thought so; Wasn't the church called First Christian Church on the other "KBJ" threads?

[jeh1980]

I know that this has nothing to do with the destruction of that old building...but KBJ as "Keeping Back Jacksonville?!" Not so! We all due respect, but if it weren't for KBJ, we wouldn't see some of those high-rises near the river (Modis Tower -Independent Square, Riverplace Tower - Wachovia, BB&T Building, Prudential Plaza 1 & 2, especially the soon to be the former Bellsouth Tower now renamed AT&T)

[thelakelander]

All of those are great buildings when viewed from I-95, but they leave a lot to be desired at street level because they are designed to be self contained in an environment that dependent on structures that feed off each other to create a virbant street scene.

[Jason]

Better connecting those buildings to the street scene is a relatively easy fix though.  Most of them have relatively large setbacks that would allow for smaller connecting structures that adress the street and provide space for other uses.

[thelakelander]

Basically, the first floor uses on the interior of those buildings need to be flipped to open out onto the street.   In some cases, like the MODIS, its an easy fix, in other cases, like Riverplace Tower, its not, due to the suburban style layout.

[Steve]

I know that this has nothing to do with the destruction of that old building...but KBJ as "Keeping Back Jacksonville?!" Not so! We all due respect, but if it weren't for KBJ, we wouldn't see some of those high-rises near the river (Modis Tower -Independent Square, Riverplace Tower - Wachovia, BB&T Building, Prudential Plaza 1 & 2, especially the soon to be the former Bellsouth Tower now renamed AT&T)

Let me ask you something - which would you rather have:

1. A City that Looks Great from I-95, or
2. A City that is vibrant at street level


I'd much rather the city vibrant at street level.  Most of KBJ's designs prohibit that.   Look at the base of the Prudential Building (the newer one).  Other than the entrance, the ground floor is maintenance equipment.  how is that visually appealing to walk next to?

The BB&T building is no better.  It looks good from Forsyth St (the main entrance, but it completely failed to take into account any other side of the building.  Bay St is a Massive Loading Dock (the BOA tower has less loading dock space at street level than BB&T.  Hogan St is a concrete wal.

The at&t building is okay, but again, it's designed with one entrance, and no external retail.

Tell me, what if they kept the building design the same from floors 2 or 3 to the top, and redid the street level?  It would be the same from I-95.  Now, take a look at the Bank of America Tower.  While not a perfect design, it's much better.  Three of the Four corners could be external retail spots simply by replacing one window and putting in a door (actually the one at the SW corner is already standalone).  How about the Everbank Building on Riverside.  It has all of the modern conveniences, with really good urban sesign at the street.

Not to mention, let's be honest.  KBJ didn't exactly inspire Independent Life, Prudential or Gulf Life to build a new building.  They had a need for Office Space, and KBJ was paid for a design (they didn't donate it).  Somehow, if KBJ didn't exist, I think those companies would have still built their buildings.

[Jason]

Regardless of wether or not KBJ designed the building, the city, the owner, and the state of downtown at that time did not request that these buildings adress the street properly.  I'm not trying to let KBJ off of the hook but they are not solely to blame.  Luckily, for almost all of these structures it is relatively easy to enhance them to better address the street and improve their walkability and connection with the rest of their surroundings.

[thelakelander]

KBJ aside....(I'm speaking of the local architectural community in general)

I may be wrong, but from a point of view, coming from the architectural industry, I think it's more on us to encourage and produce quality design that not only looks good, but also enhances the environment around it.  If the educated professionals are looking for ultimate guidance on design from elected officials who aren't qualified in this particular industry, then we're all lost.

[Jason]

You make a good point and I agree completely.  Dealing with requirements by non-qualified individuals and organizations is something I deal with on a regular basis as well.  But there are still minimal guidelines that have to be met and when discussing past downtown projects, those guidelines/requirements have been neglected and ignored until recently.  KBJ and others can be faulted for ignoring/neglecting these requirements, but the city is also at fault ofr their lack of enforcement. 

I'm guessing here, but I'd say that about 85% of conceputal designs that may meet and exceed said requirements are hacked up by greedy contractors, tight budgets, and fickle owners leaving a less than desireable end product.