D-Day for Sunrail: CSX-SunRail Deal Faces Showdown in Senate

[thelakelander]

Could Amtrak take over Sunrail?

What we think: A last chance for rail

....But SunRail still might run if leaders in Central Florida and Washington, who remain eager to fund it, can drive it past obstructionists in Tallahassee.

U. S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced Thursday that the Obama administration supports SunRail, so much so that it still included

$40 million for the project in its new budget. That helps, but so would a new liability agreement in case of accidents.

State senators rejected the agreement submitted to them, saying it dumped too much risk on the state, even though it mirrored the one the Legislature approved for Tri-Rail. But Amtrak, which has liability agreements in place for the commuter trains it operates in California, Virginia, Connecticut and Maryland, potentially could apply them to SunRail â€" and operate the train.

It's also possible that a transportation authority or commission representing the Central Florida system might assume the liability.

A failure to pursue those and other options that transportation analysts say could salvage SunRail would set in motion a terrible chain of events.

The loss of 13,000 rail-construction jobs.

The gutting of urban-development projects that could help curb sprawl. At just one of SunRail's 17 planned stations, Florida Hospital's looking to spend more than $100 million on housing, retail, diagnostic and office facilities.

And related transportation projects might be abandoned, including plans for a light-rail line connecting International Drive to the airport, high-speed rail tying Orlando to Miami, and even dreams of light or commuter rail in Tampa and Jacksonville.

More than $75 million and countless hours working to develop SunRail already have been spent. What a waste if nothing comes of it.

full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edped-sunrail-051009051009may10,0,7181322.story

[Ocklawaha]

Riding on the Train they call the Sunrail,
Charlie Crist Monday morning rail
Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders,
one conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail.
All along the southbound odyssey
The train pulls out at Kissimmee
Rolls along past houses, farms and fields.
Passin' trains that have no names,
Freight yards full of old black men
And the graveyards of the rusted automobiles.

CHORUS:
Good morning America how are you?
Don't you know me I'm your native son,
I'm the train they call The Central Florida Sunrail,
I'll be gone some 60 miles when the day is done.

Dealin' card games with the old men in the club car.
Penny a point ain't no one keepin' score.
Pass the paper bag that holds the bottle
Feel the wheels rumblin' 'neath the floor.
And the sons of pullman porters
And the sons of engineers
Ride their father's magic carpets made of steel.
Mothers with their babes asleep,
Are rockin' to the gentle beat
And the rhythm of the rails is all they feel.

CHORUS

Nighttime on The Central Florida Sunrail,
Changing cars in De Bary.
Half way home, we'll be there by morning
Through the Florida darkness
Rolling down to Disney.
And all the towns and people seem
To fade into a bad dream
And the steel rails still ain't heard the news.
The conductor sings his song again,
The passengers will please refrain
This train's got the Paula Dockery blues.

Good night, America, how are you?
Don't you know me I'm your native son,
I'm the train they call The Central Florida Sunrail,
I'll be gone some 60 miles when the day is done.


SALUTE PAULA! Dumb B****

OCKLAWAHA
(Sound of more bridges burning, old hippie laughing)

[Ocklawaha]

I don't know.  The Winter Haven thing is a done deal and caters to the Central Florida industrial and shipping scene.  I don't think an intermodal center at Cecil will impact the need for better facilities in Central Florida one way or the other.

It's called optical pre-sort... Pre staging, using OCR, Optical Charticar Readers. We get the shipments in 100 car trains aprox every 10 minutes 24-7, Winter Haven will never even see half of that traffic. I thinking break down, pre-lined for switching, and out the door. Interchange cars would not get hit with per deum if they could be turned fast enough. Besides FEC/NS just built a massive center in Titusville and with the BEE LINE (I hate the new name) or highway 50 they can probably beat CSX's best time. Their track is a freaking super railroad.

The benefit to Jax being the locale, is Titusville and/or Winter Haven are mostly inbound shipments. Those don't make much money for the railroad if it didn't originate on line. They'll be some outbound but there isn't even rail service to Port Canaveral, and Tampa is way to shallow and bridge restricted. So I'm thinking of a center that works BOTH ways, in and out. We ROCK!

Did you read the Jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/ article? It's about something a bit more then Titusville or Winter Haven or even Huntsville, or Bismark. This would be a combination BULK TERMINAL as well as International intermodal.


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

^I read it.  I see how a location switch can benefit Jacksonville, but I also see why the Winter Haven location makes sense.  The ILC will be a destination point for consumer goods and automobiles moving to central Florida. It will replace Orlando's yard. 

Winter Haven is ideally situated in the center of Central Florida.   There are more than 7 million people living within a 100 mile radius of the city.  Moving the yard out of Central Florida to Jax, puts more trucks on every highway south of Jacksonville.  I don't think that is a good thing.  If goods are still rail bound to Central Florida, some sort of yard will still be needed down there.

[Ocklawaha]

Yes, it really would benefit Jax. Build this rather then the Western Beltway right up the west side from Cecil to the NS.

Winter Haven is going to be a rail-highway, railroad restricted transloading facility (from everything I've seen). So having an INTERNATIONAL facility here, firmly anchored to both our PORT and our CECIL FIELD INTERNATIONAL CARGO AIRPORT. Making a 5 way transfer or a sixth way local delivery possible.

Add to this an "International Bulk Transfer Center", where goods and commodities could be stored, bought, sold, pumped, stacked, dipped, loaded, dumped... A one-stop shop for any type of industry or industrial goods business. All done with the Port, Airport, Rail, Air, Highway, at their finger tips. 

What I was saying if played right, we could pre-block the trains for Winter Haven, taking that job from Waycross. (Pre-blocked is pre sorted in delivery order).

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Oh, I'm not opposed to having better rail facilities in Jacksonville, especially at Cecil (They should have never pulled up the track there in the first place).  Nevertheless, since they are basically consolidating activities currently taking place down there with the ILC, I just failed to see how something at Cecil would have a great impact on the need or design of the Winter Haven yard. 

As for the Waycross pre-block situation, is it safe to assume this would ultimately come down to CSX's needs and if the city/state would be willing to pay for the facility and getting CSX to buy in to it?

[Ocklawaha]

The wost part of Cecil is:

From the aerials it appears they 1. used the railroad right-of-way for a good length of the Parkway. Also, 2. As with everything else Jacksonville, it was captive to the Seaboard Air Line, then Seaboard Coast Line, then Family Lines, Seaboard System and finally CSX (because the attorneys were too dumb to give it a REAL name).

ANYTHING we do for future development should have a law written that it MUST have access to all carriers.
Easier then it sounds because NS and FEC are partners, and CSX regularly runs into Bodwen Yard on the FEC. So we COULD have a neutral terminal zone. "The JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL DISTRICT".

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

ANYTHING we do for future development should have a law written that it MUST have access to all carriers.

That's the spirit, you have the beginnings of a lobbyist. Don't get discouraged if people think property taxes or school systems are more important, just keep fighting the rail fight. I am sure we would all welcome a rail tax to fund proposed projects 20 and 30 years down the road, only to see Miami or Tampa take our funds.

[Lunican]

Mica works to save commuter rail, expand it in Volusia
By John Bozzo
June 9, 2009

Not only does U.S. Rep. John Mica want to keep Central Florida commuter rail alive, he's pushing to expand the plan in Volusia County.

"Right now, we're not closing the door on commuter rail," the Winter Park Republican said Monday at an Eggs and Issues breakfast forum sponsored by The Chamber, Daytona Beach-Halifax Area.

Volusia stands to get $24 million in federal funding to build a second commuter rail station, in addition to one in DeBary, and to study extending the rail line to East Volusia, he said.

Mica earmarked the additional Volusia funding in a federal six-year transportation authorization bill scheduled for adoption by Congress in the fall. The location of the second station has not been determined.

He told the audience of about 70 people that traffic was heavy on his drive to the forum at Indigo Country Club from his home in Winter Park.

"Again, the problem is not going away," he said.

A proposed 61.5-mile commuter rail system connecting DeLand and metropolitan Orlando failed to get approved by the state Legislature in May.

Mica said the plan fell victim to some "bad politics."

"Some may wonder why a right-wing conservative . . . why do I support a left-wing idea like mass transit," Mica said. "It's pretty easy. All you have to look at is the cost."

SunRail, the proposed Central Florida commuter rail project, was projected to cost $2.7 billion over 30 years, split among the federal and state governments, as well as five local government partners -- Volusia, Orange, Osceola, Seminole and Orlando.

Widening Interstate 4 by two lanes for 20 miles through Orlando would also cost about $3 billion, but Mica said the rail project would provide more bang for the buck. It would move an estimated 13,000 people per hour, compared to 2,000 cars per hour on the widened interstate.

Mica said rerouting freight traffic to the middle of the state would transfer more loads from trucks to trains and ease wear and tear on roads. SunRail opponents were also critical of the planned freight train routes.

Also a supporter of high-speed rail, Mica said Florida isn't ready for such a project because other than Miami, there are no commuter rail systems to link up with a high-speed train.

Volusia County Chairman Frank Bruno said the future of commuter rail is "up in the air" after the defeat in the legislature. A deal for the state to buy CSX lines for $432 million is set to expire June 30. Other questions remain about local governments assuming operational and liability costs.

"I want to be supportive, it's just how do I move ahead without the state being part of it?" Bruno said.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/WestVolusia/wvlWEST01060909.htm

[thelakelander]

If they can get it to Daytona, this will be a nice move because it will then become a bi-directional system.

[JeffreyS]

That would make the Amtrak enhancement from Miami to Jax that much more attractive.

[fsujax]

and it could be considered "Inter-City Rail" which opens the door for Amtrak.

[Ocklawaha]

ANYTHING we do for future development should have a law written that it MUST have access to all carriers.

That's the spirit, you have the beginnings of a lobbyist. Don't get discouraged if people think property taxes or school systems are more important, just keep fighting the rail fight. I am sure we would all welcome a rail tax to fund proposed projects 20 and 30 years down the road, only to see Miami or Tampa take our funds.

Yes, MTrain, I really want to close all those schools you keep chirping about because only you and I know that 100% of the funding for a new freight railroad neutral terminal district will come from the pockets of our poor little starving kids and their hungry teachers. Granted that Tampa and Miami will get their share too... Oh and in case you didn't notice the neutral terminal district would be a FOR PROFIT FREIGHT RAILROAD, that could fund not only our transit but WOULD IN FACT pay school district levies. The points I'm making below are about Passenger rail riding on that freight system. A point with a warning that Jacksonville should NEVER support a new Central Florida Coast to Coast link unless we get some huge guaranty's from Amtrak that WE REMAIN THE TERMINAL for Florida.

Better pray that EVERY effort to tie Orlando/Sanford with the FEC on the East Coast FAILS! If they pull it off, Amtrak service will likely be lost forever to:

The CSX "A" LINE: Jacksonville, NAS, Orange Park, Green Cove Springs, Palatka, Crescent City, Deland, Sanford.

The CSX "S" LINE: Jacksonville, Baldwin, Waldo, Ocala, Lakeland, Tampa.

We will then have only one effective route to everything South and whatever City gets the FEC Junction to Orlando, will steal the thunder of our Jacksonville Terminal Station by blowing right through.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

and the TPO is scheduled to vote tomorrow on sending a letter in support of high speed rail being extended to include Jax-Orlando

[thelakelander]

Regarding that resolution...

• A resolution supporting a high speed rail and designation of a high speed rail corridor between Jacksonville and Orlando was shelved and will be discussed further during the organization’s workshop next month. Chair and City Council member Art Graham and others wanted to hear more on the subject before passing such a resolution, as the issue wasn’t imminent. Such a project would be “a long ways out,” said North Florida TPO Executive Director Denise Bunnewith, but such a resolution would put it in the long-term forecast. “Long term, we don’t want to be left out of the picture,” she said.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=52547


Perhaps that resolution should include backing Amtrak bringing passenger service back to the FEC!  That is something that can be in our short-term forcast if we act on it and throw our weight behind our neighbors to the South.  Here is an example of another east coast Florida city giving their support. 

CITY OF MARGATE, FLORIDA

RESOLUTION NO.A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF MÃ,,RGATE, FLORIDA;REQUESTING THE ASSISTANCE OF GOVERNOR CRISTAND FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATIONSECRETARY KOPELOUSOS TO PRIORITIZE THEINTERCITY RAIL COMPONENT OF THE FEC CORRIDORPROJECT (FROM JACKSONVILLE TO MIAMI) AS PARTOF THE FEDERAL ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE FORTHE STATE OF FLORIDA; PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

WHEREAS, the FEC corridor was historically operated as apassenger rail line along Florida's east coast; and

WHEREAS, Florida's east coast historically developed around train stations along the FEC railroad; and

WHEREAS, local governments and the private sector along Florida's east coast are currently implementing programs to redevelop historic downtowns built around train stations; and

WHEREAS, improved mobility is highly desired in the City of Margate, Broward County and throughout the State of Florida; and

WHEREAS, transit, including rail transit, is a key component of improved mobility, especially between cities andthroughout Florida's east coast; and

WHEREAS, the 2006 Florida Rail plan identifies passenger transit along the FEC corridor as a potential "Coastal Route"for new passenger rail service in the State of Florida; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak is well-suited to provide passenger railservice along Florida's east coast; and

WHEREAS, the réintroduction of Amtrak service along Florida's east coast would provide near-term jobs and economic stimulus for Florida's residents and businesses; and

WHEREAS, the Federal Government is seeking appropriateprojects for inclusion in the Federal economic stimulus package to provide immediate and near-term job opportunities for projects; and

WHEREAS, the Intercity FEC Corridor Project(Jacksonville/Miami) is an appropriate project for inclusion by the State of Florida in the American Recovery and ReinvestmentPlan; and

WHEREAS, former work by Amtrak and FDOT includes plans forthe improvements necessary to initiate Amtrak service on the FECcorridor.

NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF MARGATE, FLORIDA:

Section 1: That the above whereas clauses are adoptedas set forth herein.

Section 2: That the City Commission of the City of Margate goes on record requesting the assistance of Governor Crist and Florida Department of Transportation Secretary Kopelousos to prioritize the Intercity Rail Component of the FECCorridor Project (From Jacksonville to Miami) as part of the Federal Economic Stimulus Package for the State of Florida.

Section 3: A copy of this resolution shall be sent to the Governor of the State of Florida, Florida Department of Transportation Secretary Kopelousos, the Broward County Legislative Delegation and other members of the FloridaLegislature.

SECTION 4:This Resolution shall become effective immediately upon its passage. PASSED, ADOPTED AND APPROVED THISATTEST: DAY OF, 2009. LESLIE RAE WALLACE CITY CLERK MAYOR ARTHUR J. BROSS RECORD OF VOTE Donovan McLean Talerico Varsallone Bross

full link: www.margatefl.com/Agendas/backup050609/14.pdf

To see how this could benefit Jacksonville



http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-mar-federal-stimulus-for-jacksonville-to-st-augustine-rail