Waterboarded 183 Times in One Month. Torture Issue Blows Up.

[BridgeTroll]

Apparently we were torturing POWs during Vietnam...

[Sigma]

Stephen,

The CIA has oversight on a lot of these matters, but military interrogators are the handlers.  I personally know a couple people that served as interrogators in Iraq.  They sleep pretty well at night.

Monsters cut off heads to display on TV because they hate.  

Soldiers in general have a certain percentage that suffer psychological issues due to war.  It happens, I agree with you.  But that doesn't mean we should not defend ourselves in the best way possible.  

[BridgeTroll]

Bridge Troll.  We have several times discussed the various methods of torture. Why do you pretend that the only thing that has ever happened is waterboarding?

Must you always resort to the strawman?  I have never said anything of the sort!!  Of course you are well aware of what I say... you simply try to change what I say into something you can misrepresent.

Waterboarding is most talked about as an interrogation method because it sounds so much more harsh than "stress positions" and sleep deprivation.

Let me ask this... If one Allied soldiers life was saved or an attack upon civilians detered would you then forgive the method used to obtain the pertinant information??

[BridgeTroll]

http://incoldblogger.blogspot.com/2007/07/killitary-are-americas-armed-forces.html

The list of lawyers, doctors, presidents, CEOs, etc... who have spent time in the military is even more astounding...

The guy who wrote this tripe is an ass...

The list of serial killers and mass murderers who have spent time in the military is astounding.

[BridgeTroll]

no.

As I thought...

Since we haven't been invaded, we aren't fighting for our land or property.

Oh we are Stephen... Ask bin laden and his disciples... 9/11 made pearl harbor look like a barfight.  Thousands dead... the Pentagon hit... the Capitol building was the the only target they missed.

We are still fighting and so are they...  They will slit your throat from ear to ear Stephen... even as you defend their right to a fair trial... and they will laugh at your weakness while they do it.

We ARE fighting...

[BridgeTroll]

Are you downplaying the psychological and emotional damage that warfare does to people who would ordinarily have full and happy lives?

I am not... and since you seem to have forgotten... I am a Vet.

[Sigma]

no.

hopefully we fight for our ideals man. 

Since we havent been invaded, we arent fighting for our land or property.

Stephen, since you answered the basic question with a resounding "No", then this conversation is a moot point.  Again, I'll restate that I'm glad you will never be in a position to make that call.  But I respect your opinion.

But you have no idea how many threats exist and have been thwarted.  Obviously 9/11 is not a definition of an "invasion" to you.  Perhaps another attack will wake you up?

[BridgeTroll]

So, Iraq blew up the World Trade Towers?

Iraq??  WTF are you talking about?  No one (except yourself) has mentioned iraq in this entire thread...

[Sigma]

So, Iraq blew up the World Trade Towers?

Here we go - this is lame and old.  

[BridgeTroll]

They are values we should strive for.  Resorting to methods that are not normally our nature is fairly common.  Normally our ideals and values preclude the taking of life... yet executions and abortions are performed with regularity.  Normally our ideals and values preclude us from hurting people yet we do so to protect innocents from harm.

Harsh interrogation methods are NOT part of our ideals and values... yet in this particular case... the president and others deemed it necessary to protect you.  Is it that difficult to forgive this?

[BridgeTroll]

Then enjoy the proceedings with glee...  I hope you are happy with the outcomes...

[BridgeTroll]

We shall see...

[BridgeTroll]

Happily... we will never know how many lives were saved...

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief


Khalid Sheik Mohammad, a top al Qaeda leader who divulged information -- after being waterboarded -- that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned terrorist attack on Los Angeles. (CNSNews.com) - The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the “Second Wave”-- planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”

KSM was the mastermind of the first “hijacked-airliner” attacks on the United States, which struck the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Northern Virginia on Sept. 11, 2001.

After KSM was captured by the United States, he was not initially cooperative with CIA interrogators.  Nor was another top al Qaeda leader named Zubaydah.  KSM, Zubaydah, and a third terrorist named Nashiri were the only three persons ever subjected to waterboarding by the CIA. (Additional terrorist detainees were subjected to other “enhanced techniques” that included slapping, sleep deprivation, dietary limitations, and temporary confinement to small spaces -- but not to water-boarding.)

This was because the CIA imposed very tight restrictions on the use of waterboarding. “The ‘waterboard,’ which is the most intense of the CIA interrogation techniques, is subject to additional limits,” explained the May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo. “It may be used on a High Value Detainee only if the CIA has ‘credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent’; ‘substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attack’; and ‘

• ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit this information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.’”
  
  The quotations in this part of the Justice memo were taken from an Aug. 2, 2004 letter that CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo sent to the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.
  
  Before they were subjected to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.
  
  “In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,” says the Justice Department memo. “Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’  Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”
  
  After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.
  
  The May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that details what happened in this regard was written by then-Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John A. Rizzo, the senior deputy general counsel for the CIA.
  
  “You have informed us that the interrogation of KSMâ€"once enhanced techniques were employedâ€"led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles,” says the memo.
  
  “You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave,’” reads the memo. “More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali’s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM.”
  
  A CIA spokesman confirmed to CNSNews.com today that the CIA stands by the factual assertions made here.
  
  In the memo itself, the Justice Department’s Bradbury told the CIA’s Rossi: “Your office has informed us that the CIA believes that ‘the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qa’ida has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.”
  

[BridgeTroll]

What bogus information?  The detainees are getting better medical care and health care products than you are Stephen.  THAT is preposterous.

[BridgeTroll]

Colonel Jacobs is a great man and his views are very valid... but they do not have much bearing on this.  You implied that there was bogus information given to the CIA... All I am saying is...

Really??  What was it?