1 Train - 2 trains - red trains - blue trains... Skyway unscrambled and expanded

[Ocklawaha]

SING ALONG WITH THE SKYWAY ANTHEM

Michael Rennie was ill the day the earth stood still
But he told us where we stand
And Flash Gordon was there in silver underwear
Claude Raines was the invisible man
Then something went wrong for Fay Wray and King Kong
They got caught in a celluloid jam
Then at a deadly pace it came from outer space
And this is how the message ran:


Someone posted about the skyway being slow and the transfer mess, then I started checking. Oh my this is a simple fix and great for Stadium and San Marco expansion.


Current Skyway junction layout.

This is a simple matter of patterns. Figure "8's", lines that intersect and lines that don't... It's about FLUID and FLOW... Something the Skyway wastes away today.

What if we DID expand it? EASY, Look at the pattern here, it even shows some (NOT ALL)  switch work that would no longer be needed where the lines join.


"England swings like a pendulum do..."

So the solution would be to build into two slightly longer trains (4 current cars or 6 future cars = 2 end cars and 4 center cars on each train). Now you've got 8 intersecting lines, 4 on each side of Central Station, which narrow to two tracks at Central Station. How do you make it dance?


SKYWAY REVISED (OCKLAWAHA) LAYOUT

Blue Line, (EXAMPLE) the trains leave the end points at about the same moment. The train (either one) which comes in from Union Station, will enter Central Station first using only the Northside track. As it pulls away the other train will meet it on the other track near Hemming Plaza Station or the MIDWAY POINT. Thus with an off center Central Station, it's as easy as braiding hair.

Gotta pattern?

THOUGHTS?

Science Fiction - Double Feature
Dr. X will build a creature
See androids fighting Brad and Janet
Ann Francis stars in Forbidden Planet
Oh-oh at the late night, double feature, Skyway show
I wanna go, oh-oh, to the late night double feature Skyway show

[Ocklawaha]

Where's the Skyway in this scene?

The little train that can't...
A new prospective and maybe a new type of post. We're always talking about how the Skyway misses the mark and I'm thinking which marks? What major employment, school or residential centers does the Skyway miss. I would say name anything more the a block away, and in some cases such as FCCJ  its cut off by a virtual freeway. Let's cover the entire proposed route system as of today:

Central Station to Metropolitan Stadium
Central Station to Shand's
Central Station to Riverside
Central Station to San Marco

you can add any new or unknown route idea if you can justify the traffic potential and name the buildings.

I counting on you good people to come up with a list, I'm thinking simple like the following example, or invent your own list:

Blue Cross,  XXX Blocks from the nearest station  - and XXX employees (if you happen to know)
CSX, XXX Blocks from the nearest station

OCKLAWAHA

[Keith-N-Jax]

That pretty much sums it up. I guess a catwalk could be built from the station to FCCJ or just take your chances with the traffic.

[ProjectMaximus]

I remember the skyway (extension) was supposed to go directly into the FCCJ building on the 3rd floor. But the school fought that, not wanting to generate unnecessary traffic in that particular proposed corridor.

[BridgeTroll]

Riverplace station is just a block or two from Strand and Peninsula.

[Ocklawaha]

If no one wants to "play", guess I'll have to find another way to Identify the large employers in the urban core that the Skyway misses:

Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Florida    9,000
Baptist Health System 5,600
Citibank (Citi-Cards)  5,000 
CSX 4,400
Bank of America  4,000
Wachovia 3,700
Shands Jacksonville Healthcare 3,500 
Bell South Telecommunications 3,320 
Aetna, Inc 3,000
Fidelity National Financial, Inc 2,300
Vistakon Vision Products Inc 2,249
Kelley-Clarke Inc 2,200 ?
Washington Mutual 2,100 ?


Come on folks I want to see every other Downtown employer missed by the Skyway.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

If no one wants to "play", guess I'll have to find another way to Identify the large employers in the urban core that the Skyway misses:

Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Florida    9,000
Baptist Health System 5,600
Citibank (Citi-Cards)  5,000 
CSX 4,400
Bank of America  4,000
Wachovia 3,700
Shands Jacksonville Healthcare 3,500 
Bell South Telecommunications 3,320 
Aetna, Inc 3,000
Fidelity National Financial, Inc 2,300
Vistakon Vision Products Inc 2,249
Kelley-Clarke Inc 2,200 ?
Washington Mutual 2,100 ?

Come on folks I want to see every other Downtown employer missed by the Skyway.

OCKLAWAHA

Ock, the MAJORITY of these employees work OUTSIDE the urban core.  These numbers are all of Duval County for these companies, not downtown.  Most of Blue Cross is at Gate Parkway.  Citibank, Washington Mutual, and  Vistakon, etc. are all in the suburbs.  Most Bank of America and Wachovia employees are at bank branches or a suburban office park.  So are a significant numbers of CSX and ATT/Bellsouth employees.  Baptist has large numbers of employees at the Beach and its South campus. Shands has offices all over Jax as well.

Maybe its presentations like this that the original planners relied on to justify the current system.  That would explain why they are off 90% after 20 years of additional Downtown growth from the base used in the original traffic estimates!

[Shwaz]

An extension to Jacksonville Municipal Stadium could bring an astronomical number of rider's and not just for the Jag's games but baseball games, FLA / GA (week), Met Park / Fairgrounds activities and events at the Arena.

None of the above are really employment or residential opportunities but could bring major spikes in riders year round. The stadium line would increase the weekend rider numbers exponentially too.

[JeffreyS]

I think a few catwalks would add some usability. FCCJ, Strand, Penisular, Hilton, Atena and Baptist  Health.  The best extension to me would be to the Riverside Arts Market site to serve Fidelity, BCBS and the Everbank building.

[Doctor_K]

1.  Catwalk across the State/Union freeway to FCCJ campus
2.  Extension A: Bay St. to A Phillip Randolph, serving the Stadium, Arena, Ballpark, and Met Park.  Cover the sidewalks from the station up Randolph to further promote a 'street market' type atmosphere for the entire street
3.  Extension B: down towards Everbank/Fidelity

Then watch the ridership numbers skyrocket, causing:

4.  Actual extension C: to the Kings Ave Station, then
5.  Extension D: down to that TOD/TAD proposed on Philips Hwy. (Jackson Square?)
6.  Extension E: To the R.A.M. area

[Steve]

I wouldn't be in favor of ANY extension of this, without it coming with a commuter rail line.  I don't think it would generate enough riders.  The main problem with the skyway is that people don't want to drive for 45 minutes from Orange Park, then park and wait on the Skyway.  Downtown doesn't have traffic - the burbs have traffic.

Once you build the line from OP to Downtown, then extend it to Riverside and Forest, and to the Sports Complex, depending on the cost.

Now, with regards to the employer list (these are my estimates, not official stats):

Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Florida    9,000 (about 1,500-2,000 downtown)
Baptist Health System 5,600 (about 3,500 downtown)
Citibank (Citi-Cards)  5,000  (0 Downtown)
CSX 4,400 (About 3,000 Downtown)
Bank of America  4,000 (About 500-750 downtown)
Wachovia 3,700 (About 1,000 downtown)
Shands Jacksonville Healthcare 3,500  (most if not all downtown)
Bell South Telecommunications 3,320  (about 1,500 downtown)
Aetna, Inc 3,000 (most downtown)
Fidelity National Financial, Inc 2,300 (all downtown)
Vistakon Vision Products Inc 2,249 (none downtown)
Kelley-Clarke Inc 2,200 (none downtown)
Washington Mutual 2,100 (none downtown)

This adds up to about 17,000 people downtown.  Also, the Fidelity campus has three companies (FNF, FIS, and LPS) - is this number representative of all three?  While a solid number, The Fidelity Companies, Shands, Baptist, and I believe BCBS all have free parking.  You will be hardpressed to find anyone from any of these companies who want to commute downtown, and instead of parking for free, want to pay to then ride the Skyway?

[ChriswUfGator]

If that thing ever has any HOPE of being remotely useful it needs to connect at a minimum:

(In order of Importance)

-UNF
-The airport main terminal
-JU
-NAS Jax
-Gate Parkway corporate park, a couple different stops there + walkways to the buildings
-Riverside/Avondale, somewhere around the Shops @ Avondale, include commuter parking if room.
-5 Points, include commuter parking if practicable.
-San Marco, at/by the square.
-Springfield, put a station + parking somewhere on N. Main, knock down some of those used car lots to make room.
-Northside around Gateway Mall, and provide parking for commuters
-The beaches, those areas need several stops, as close as practicable to residential areas
-Avenues Mall, can make agreement w/ owner to use lot for commuter parking
-Town Center Mall, can make agreement w/ owner to use lot for commuter parking
-Orange Park Mall, can make agreement w/ owner to use lot for commuter parking
-Regency Mall, can make agreement w/ owner to use lot for commuter parking
-Put a station in Fidelity's parking garage, that will serve that cluster of buildings, incl. Dupont, Center Bank, etc.

And this is just a start. Ideally, a line could eventually go to Saint Augustine and Ponte Vedra, for all those commuters. And the trains need to be faster and bigger.

If they did those expansions, we'd actually have useable rail transport here.

[ChriswUfGator]

1.  Catwalk across the State/Union freeway to FCCJ campus
2.  Extension A: Bay St. to A Phillip Randolph, serving the Stadium, Arena, Ballpark, and Met Park.  Cover the sidewalks from the station up Randolph to further promote a 'street market' type atmosphere for the entire street
3.  Extension B: down towards Everbank/Fidelity

Then watch the ridership numbers skyrocket, causing:

4.  Actual extension C: to the Kings Ave Station, then
5.  Extension D: down to that TOD/TAD proposed on Philips Hwy. (Jackson Square?)
6.  Extension E: To the R.A.M. area

+1, I forgot about the arena and all the public event spaces. Those should be connected too. Good thinking.

[ChriswUfGator]

And one question for Ocklawaha...how fast can those things go?

Would they need to be replaced for longer distances?

I only ever see them going like 20mph and that isn't going to cut it for longer distances...

[coredumped]

Yep, UNF. That's 16,000 students and growing every year. It would be nice if it went straight down beach (like the k2), stopping at UNF, and then continuing over the new bridge to the beach. People could use it to go to school who live on either side of UNF, and anyone from downtown east could take it to the beach on the weekends.