Rail in Jacksonville: Getting Started Immediately

[thelakelander]

I doubt it.  There's a debate about the state tying itself in the future to relieving rail traffic through Lakeland.

Commuter Rail Proposal Stagnates

By LINDSAY PETERSON

lpeterson@tampatrib.com

Published: March 31, 2009

TALLAHASSEE - With only a month left in the state legislative session, the going has gotten slow for Central Florida's commuter rail project.

A bill with a key liability agreement won't come up for at least two weeks in the next Senate committee scheduled to hear it. At the same time, the head of the U.S. House Transportation Committee has called signing such agreements an "unacceptable practice."

The comments from U.S. Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., came in response to a U.S. Government Accountability Office report about the arrangements that governments make when they buy freight railroads for public use.

In Florida's case, the state plans to give CSX Transportation $432 million for 61 miles of the track that runs through downtown Orlando. The track would be used for a commuter system, called SunRail.

Part of the money would also be used for rail improvements along the line going through Dade City and Lakeland into a new truck-rail hub in Winter Haven.

CSX plans to keep using the Orlando area tracks during off-peak commuter hours, but it requires the state to take liability for all damage to commuter trains or passengers in the case of an accident, even one caused by CSX.

Oberstar and U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor, D-Tampa, sought the GAO report last year, when the Florida Legislature first debated the proposed liability agreement. It failed, holding up the CSX sale and SunRail's construction plans.

If the state doesn't approve the agreement this session, the CSX deal will die.

The bill containing the agreement moved easily through previous committees this session, but state Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, has held it up in the committee he chairs, Senate Transportation and Economic Development Appropriations.

It's not the liability provision, he said. He doesn't like the way it makes a space for Lakeland on a waiting list for future transportation dollars. This language was added to appease Lakeland's anger over the extra trains expected to be routed through the town center because of the state-funded rail improvements.

Giving any area priority on the transportation funding list circumvents rules designed to take regional politics out of the process, he said.

He also wants assurances that no state money will be spent for SunRail until the federal government has provided its share. SunRail organizers sold the plan with the promise of federal help in construction of the system.

"I don't want the state to put out hundreds of millions of dollars to pay CSX and start developing this project only to find out in a year or two the federal government is not coming in," Fasano said.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/mar/31/na-commuter-rail-proposal-stagnates/news-metro/

[JeffreyS]

Yes but it has also been about the money so here is a way for CSX to get what it wants and give the state more bang for the buck. BTW I doubt it also just throwing stuff against the wall.

[thelakelander]

The Amtrak issue is definatley going to be the most difficult. FDOT (Tallahassee) has to be lobbied hard and there has to be some major interest (resolutions of support) from every elected official body in NE FL to get this thing moving ahead.

Why is FDOT against Amtrak improving their service throughout the state with federal stimulus money?  Its not like if they don't make a play for it, it will be used for roads instead of rail.  Is our road building lobby that strong that it would turn away rail improvements from outside funding sources?

[Ocklawaha]

FDOT against Amtrak improving their service throughout the state with federal stimulus money?  Its not like if they don't make a play for it, it will be used for roads instead of rail.  Is our road building lobby that strong that it would turn away rail improvements from outside funding sources?

YES you can bet they are, just ask a Republican.

OCKLAWAHA

[Sigma]

YES you can bet they are, just ask a Republican.

Please explain.

[5PointsGuy]

Basically, my thinking is, mass transit should go take people from their homes to business/work. Right now we have an underused, undermarketed bus system, a monorail that goes from commercial to commercial and no other mass transit lines to brag about (although I do like the trolley, as I use it every day. I wish it came to 5-points in the morning though, I'd let them charge me for the ride).

[mtraininjax]

CSX plans to keep using the Orlando area tracks during off-peak commuter hours, but it requires the state to take liability for all damage to commuter trains or passengers in the case of an accident, even one caused by CSX.

Any lawmaker that signs off on that deal, should have their head examined. So if a passenger train hits a car because one of CSX's gates is not down, the State gets the shaft? Rails buckling due to improper installation - state pays, this sounds like the shaft.

CSX is the mos over-leveraged of the Class 1 railroads. They sold off the Greenbriar, and PAID Marriott millions for 3 years to help Marriott run it. Tell CSX to shove it where the sun don't shine and have then self-insure the line. After all, the state is helping them with something, they want to abandon south of Palatka.

[mtraininjax]

Right now we have an underused, undermarketed bus system, a monorail that goes from commercial to commercial and no other mass transit lines to brag about

I agree with you!!!

We do need a rail system.... as much as we need a hole in our heads. Prove people will give up their cars, make the bus system work.

Atlanta had buses before MARTA and it worked before MARTA rail. It can be done, but rail is the chicken and bus is the egg. Don't put the chicken before the egg.

[ProjectMaximus]

It can be done, but rail is the chicken and bus is the egg. Don't put the chicken before the egg.

Isn't the saying that we don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg? Perhaps you mean cart before the horse?

[JeffreyS]

Prove people will give up their cars

If you spend some time looking on this site you will see many examples offered of cities like Jax who have had success with rail systems.

[thelakelander]

Another fallacy in the anti-transit argument.  It is not about trying to prove that give up their cars. Its about improving the region's quality of life by offering reliable transportation choices and being a catalyst for game changing economic development.

[Ocklawaha]

YES you can bet they are, just ask a Republican.

Please explain.

The Republican platform since Amtrak was formed in 1971 has been to ZERO the budget of AMTRAK. That Amtrak has survived on a year to year handout without a fixed budget is incredible and shows the love afair Americans have with the train.

Nixon - Tried everything in his power to dump Amtrak
Ford - Same Thing
Carter - a rare Democrat, but weak president had a Republican congress force the abandonment of 5 routes, including 2 to Jacksonville.
Reagan - Invented the plea for a ZERO budget
Bush - Followed Reagan
Clinton - Didn't lift a finger to help but he didn't try and kill it either - a hostile Congress did.
Bush - Back to the ZERO budget
Obama - FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Another fallacy in the anti-transit argument.  It is not about trying to prove that give up their cars. Its about improving the region's quality of life by offering reliable transportation choices and being a catalyst for game changing economic development.

Lake we don't need any more proved record then LOS ANGELES, they were forced into Commter Rail when the Loma Preita earthquake closed a giant fly over interchange suspended from mountains in the Beals Cut area.

The rail tunnel below the pass wasn't harmed, Earthquakes don't usually damage underground. So Toronto loaned commute equipment to Los Angeles and the WORLDS MOST AUTOCENTRIC SOCIETY bailed from their cars in such numbers the the trains became a fixed part of LA.
OCKLAWHA

[Coolyfett]

a monorail that goes from commercial to commercial and no other mass transit lines to brag about

The station that was torched is the only one that has residential near it. Would you call that a commercial area?

[thelakelander]

Yes, that's a commercial area.  Over the last two years, the new condo towers have added a few residents.  However, it will need more than three half empty towers to have a strong impact on ridership numbers.