Ron Littlepage: A riverfront convention center can become reality

[thelakelander]

Littlepage makes good points, but he should already know what should be done with the Prime Osborn.  It needs to go back to it's original use.

It's a good time to dream.

A saying currently in vogue, on both sides of the partisan divide, goes like this: "A good crisis shouldn't go to waste."

Well, the current financial crisis can't last forever, fingers crossed, so why not begin planning now for the better times that are ahead?

A good place to start is the riverfront site of the current county courthouse.

Like it or not, the new county courthouse is going to be built at a cost almost double of what was promised in the Better Jacksonville Plan.

The word around City Hall is that the guaranteed maximum price for the courthouse will meet the $350 million ceiling the City Council has approved and construction could begin next month.

With that in mind, planning should begin now on what will happen with the current courthouse site.

First - as I said, let's dream - a good portion of what is now the courthouse parking lot should be converted into a landscaped public space that ties into and adds another destination point to the Northbank Riverwalk.

As for the rest of the property, a long discussed and hotly debated idea should be revisited - a new convention center.

Clearly, the Prime Osborn isn't working as a convention center.

Even with the economy in the doldrums and little money available to be spent, Mayor John Peyton should spend the final two years of his administration developing a plan.

He should determine if a new convention center is the way to go, if the old courthouse and old City Hall sites, both complemented by the Hyatt Regency, would work best as a convention center site, what the economic impact would be and how a convention center would be financed.

Peyton could tie the package up in a bow and hand it off to the new mayor, who hopefully will have a better economy to deal with.

In fact, whether to build a new convention center and what to do with the Prime Osborn could become part of the mayoral campaign.

The downtown riverfront, on both sides of the St. Johns, is developing into the city's centerpiece. A convention center could add even more activity to the area.

Peyton should also look across the river to the Southbank and solidify plans to improve the decrepit riverwalk there, including the area around Friendship Fountain.

And, if some federal stimulus money can be snagged, that work could be done before Peyton leaves office in 2011.

Two of the priorities Peyton has set for the rest of his term involve creating jobs and focusing on the river, not only its health but improving public access to it.

Both of these ideas would fit the bill.

Don't waste a crisis. Dream a little.

Dreams can become reality with planning and work.

http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-04-09/story/a_riverfront_convention_center_can_become_reality

[BridgeTroll]

I dont always agree with the guy and he only addresses half of the problem but every little bit helps...

With that in mind, planning should begin now on what will happen with the current courthouse site.

This should have already begun...

[fsujax]

I do agree with Littlepage on this one. The City should be planning right now, what to do with the old Courthouse site and how to integrate that whole area along Bay St, the Hyatt, Landing and Shipyards! now is the time to plan.

[Dapperdan]

I don't think we need any more greens space, but if there was a convention center there along with a  mixed use retail/ housing area as well, it would be a nice Riverwalk stopping point. Come on city managemant. What will it take to put a Convention center here? Can we raise bed taxes to finance it? Let us know a plan.

[Ocklawaha]

Agree Ron, we need to GET THAT CONVENTION CENTER OUT OF THE JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL! Then cut down the size of the newer Convention Center Building and convert it to Bus, Motor Coach and Rail use. Certainly the "Bold" 3 track station will assure that Orlando - NOT JACKSONVILLE will be the rail hub of the South. Incredible because we have it in our hands and inaction is seen as no interest at Amtrak and Washington DC. We can build the 10 track terminal or Orlando can... We have the building already in place and rebuilt, all we need is track and platforms + service facilities. Orlando will have to reinvent the wheel, pick a site, and build a massive terminal from the ground up.

Right now, NOW, NOW, NOW, For once we are far ahead of ANY other Southern City as far as a terminal station is concerned. NOW, we either act or get off the stage.

OCKLAWAHA

[urbanlibertarian]

Can the current courthouse and old city hall annex buildings be gutted and reused?  Can the property go on the tax rolls like the Hayden Burns library?

[TheProfessor]

"Peyton leaves office in 2011"  I like the sound of that. Perhaps we can get a mayor with a vision!

[mtraininjax]

Littlepage lives in the same fantasyland that his employer does "FTU". They are smoking and drinking the same stuff. Instead of dreaming, the ought to be doing, and he needs to get his but down to CIty hall and make sure that the Courthouse is done right, before blowing smoke over new projects that are dead last to completion. The courthouse will put 10x the workers to work, over renovating the Prime.

[heights unknown]

I do agree with Littlepage on this one. The City should be planning right now, what to do with the old Courthouse site and how to integrate that whole area along Bay St, the Hyatt, Landing and Shipyards! now is the time to plan.

Yeah, it should have already been done, but what is or has been done is done and over...so let's move on and start planning for the new Convention Center now, along with what to do with the Prime Osborne Train Depot once the Convention Center moves.  Also, if the plan is not for a new Convention Center on the old Court House plot on the Riverfront, then let's look at some other type of development that will spur growth/development in that area...i.e., don't let that space go to waste!

So Mayor Petyon, in all due respect get off your a** and get to work!

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

I agree Ocklawaha with your post; Jax has and is always portraying itself as the "Big City that can't;" we need to get off of that Bandwagon but we won't until we get a leader that can lead, that has vision, and that is willing to lead with an even bigger vision than what his Administration or the Citizens can even fathom.  The current head of the Jacksonville City Government is not that man.  Can't wait until 2011 (if the world holds up).

We are supposedly a major city in this nation but we sure don't look it or act like it.

Heights Unknown

[Ocklawaha]

One of the many fine shops and restaurants in the Los Angeles Union Station complex.  Get it Jacksonville?

Ron Littlepage
Clearly, the Prime Osborn isn't working as a convention center.

Even with the economy in the doldrums and little money available to be spent, Mayor John Peyton should spend the final two years of his administration developing a plan.

He should determine if a new convention center is the way to go, if the old courthouse and old City Hall sites, both complemented by the Hyatt Regency, would work best as a convention center site, what the economic impact would be and how a convention center would be financed.

Peyton could tie the package up in a bow and hand it off to the new mayor, who hopefully will have a better economy to deal with.

In fact, whether to build a new convention center and what to do with the Prime Osborn could become part of the mayoral campaign.

Ron EVERYONE knows what to do with the... the.... uh....(Damn I can't say those P.O. words)... the JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL. First and foremost, it's a railroad station, par exsalonce. Last of it's kind in the Southeast. Get those platforms back in tomorrow. Get Amtrak out of the Okefenokee and back downtown.
A real terminal has many services all of which involve employment and money generation.

For Example in Los Angeles:

Los Angeles
800 N. Alameda St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
Location: Union Station
Phone: 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245)
Route: Coast Starlight, Pacific Surfliner, Souhwest Chief, Sunsel LImited Trains, and San Joaquin Motorcoach Rtes 1, 4
View Map



STAFFED HOURS
24 hours a day, 7 days a week Restrooms, pay phones, Quik-Trak ticket machines, and baggage service are available at the Los Angeles station.


PARKING
Long term: $10 per day
Short term: hourly rates

Additional Parking at MTA Building next door.



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CHECK OUT THE BROCHURE FOR CHICAGO UNION STATION SO YOU CAN GET A FEEL FOR WHAT WE ARE SLEEPING ON:

http://www.chicagounionstation.com/graphics/UnionStaChi_brochure.pdf

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

I would work this backwards.  What are some elements that would make a convention center successful?

It needs to be a certain size, and expandable if the City and/or its needs grow.  I don't know what's a good size to start with, but every 43,000 square feet or so is an acre just for the building.  I would think about 4 acres would be a minimum size building footprint ultimately.

The building needs to host a rail mass transit station (not necessarily the $ky-high-way) of some sort in the long term.  It will also need to accommodate lots of tour and local buses for events.

It will need delivery bays and parking for large trucks to handle various needs for trade shows and events.

It will need a parking garage to handle well over 1,000 cars because they aren't going away anytime soon.

It will need hotels, restaurants, entertainment, some stores, etc. within a reasonable distance, preferably walking.

It would be nice if took advantage of something distinctive about Jax like the riverfront.

So where do we have land that might fit this best and would be available for public acquisition?

To me the best answers, which I have pushed before as public event places, would be the Shipyards property or the former JEA power plant property.  Both should have enough land for the building, parking, access, etc.  Excess land could be developed by the City with hotels and other commercially related facilities as a way to earn some $$$ back to pay for the facility itself.

The Shipyards would be my first choice due to its location to Downtown and the Stadium and the ability to connect the two.  Events held there could have tie ins with the Arena and Stadium.  Likewise, hotels there would be able to service all the venues in the area.  The Arena/Stadium parking lots could provide overflow parking for really large events.  Access is good from all the bridges.  Infrastructure is likely already present.  And, its on the waterfront with the ability to handle a marina for boat shows, boat access, small cruise ships, tour boats for visitors, etc.

If you visit Orlando, you will see just how much land these facilities and their accompaniments can swallow up if they are to be a success.  The property by the Hyatt is just to small to me to make it work as a first class operation.  That location would just recreate a bigger inadequate version of what we already have.

[thelakelander]

The courthouse site can work.  An urban convention center should have the ability to go up, not out.  The courthouse and city hall annex sites are more than enough for a vertical (two or three floors of convention use) convention center.  Plus we would already have the Hyatt as a convention center hotel on site and Bay Street as support entertainment and dining.  Move the thing anywhere else and we're going to have to give millions in incentives to build another hotel (because this market can't support two CC size hotels) that will have to compete head to head with what's already in place.

Here is an example of what should be considered here:

Washington State Convention & Trade Center - Seattle, WA

level 1 - street level restaurants, shops and parking access
level 2 - meeting rooms
level 3 - meeting rooms
level 4 - exhibition space (205,700 sf of continuous exhibition space on single floor)
level 5 - show offices
level 6 - ballrooms and meeting rooms

link to floor plans: http://www.wsctc.com/our_space/Floor_Plans.aspx

While this center is larger than what Jacksonville needs (I doubt we would need anything over 2 or 3 stories), it does show that you can go up, instead of out.  Also, don't forgot about the possibility of selling air rights.

The WSCTC expansion establishes a new benchmark for the integration of codevelopment into a convention center project by including a hotel, an office building, parking, street-front retail, and a new museum, all located above and below the expansion of the WSCTC.

Located in the air-rights above the convention center expansion on Pine Street, between Seventh and Eighth avenues is the new 450-room Elliott hotel. The hotel’s restaurant, ballrooms, and related meeting facilities, along with a 960-stall parking garage will occupy the space below the northwest exhibit hall. The hotel’s separate entry and drop-off will be located on Pine Street. Retail is accommodated on the Seventh Avenue and Pike Street frontages around the hotel block.

On the corner of Seventh and Pike, above the Convention Center’s new entry, meeting rooms and prefunction space is Trammell Crow’s new 16-story office building. Beneath the Convention Center’s spaces is a 256-stall parking garage.

On the corner of Eighth and Pike, in the surplus space beneath northeast exhibit hall, the Convention Center is constructing the shell of space that will subsequently be completed by the Museum of History and Industry (MOHAI) as its new exhibit, educational and administrative facilities.

link: http://www.djc.com/news/const/11122626.html

An example of the courthouse site accommodating a mixed use vertical convention center layout




The Washington State Trade & Convention Center - Seattle, WA.  This site is roughly equal in size to the waterfront courthouse property.

[stjr]

level 4 - exhibition space (205,700 sf of continuous exhibition space on single floor)

Ock, the exhibit space you just cited dictates a floor plate of well over 5 acres when you count foyers, reception space, and support space to go with the exhibition space.  I don't see all this fitting on your suggested city blocks.  How many acres do you think you are working with?

[thelakelander]

According to the property appraiser's site, 8.4 acres.  This excludes Courthouse Drive ROW, which could be built over and the Hyatt's convention facilities.

Present County Courthouse site - 5.988 acres

City Hall Annex block - 2.391 acres