TAKE THE AMTRAK - JTA JACKSONVILLE SURVEY NOW!

[Cliffs_Daughter]

Nah, it NEEDS a beverage car of some sort. Beer, wine, coffee, espresso, and little sandwiches like the Starbucks does... but it does NOT have to be Starbucks. Although seriously, who else would be granted that job?

[pwhitford]

Okay, I voted.  Now, how do I vote again?  Unless I mis-read a previous post, I can vote up to 42 times.  My boss is gone for the day and I planned on imitating a dead guy in Chicago - I was going to vote early and often.  But every time I try and navigate back to the page to vote again, all I can see are the results.  There doesn't seem to be a way to vote again.  What am I missing?   

[Ocklawaha]

Yes, you could vote 40+ times, because there are at least that many answers which you might agree with.
For example just because you vote that you'd use the train to Atlanta via Valdosta, doesn't mean you couldn't vote to ALSO use the train to Daytona Beach. If you think you would use all of the trains, then answer all of the poll questions...

When you get down to the stations and JTA questions, you simply pick the ones that you like best.

OCKLAWAHA

[Tripoli1711]

I am in favor of expanding Amtrak, and I know a lot of politicians pay lip service to it, but I often hear them use the term "self-sustaining".  I know that metropolitan mass transit is almost never going to turn a profit, and that's ok.. but is there any realistic expectation that something like Amtrak could ever turn a profit and/or be "self-sustaining".  It doesn't seem very likely to me.  I wish Amtrak were more available and I would certainly use it, but I just don't see many routes outside of, say, the congested Boston-DC corridor having much chance of profitability.  Am I wrong?

[thelakelander]

Amtrak believes they can break even running a better system in Florida.  Imo, that's about as close to any type of transportation system being self-sustaining.  The only thing standing in their way is FDOT.

[Tripoli1711]

A better system in Florida would be good.  Out of selfishness I was thinking more regionally.  If I need to go to Tampa or Orlando I'd just as soon drive.  One of my best friends lives in Atlanta and my wife's whole family is in Richmond, so I am far more interested in viable service toward those destinations, but routes such as that are more my worry on self-sustainability.

[thelakelander]

A Florida system would benefit the region as well.

1. Jax is the rail gateway to Florida.  All those extra trains would meet up here.  In other words, our proposed downtown transportation center could become a statewide rail hub.  This means more people passing through downtown and LaVilla.  That would create additional retail opportunities in the core and increase ridership on the skyway.  Well paying support jobs to keep the hub up and running would be created as well.

2. With 1.3 million residents, the First Coast is large enough for a few satellite stations on different lines, in areas like Orange Park, St. Augustine, the Avenues/Avenues Walk and Macclenny.  With better service frequency, this means it would be possible for direct rail travel between our congested suburban communities and the core.  It would also be possible to hop on a train from DT to the St. Augustine historic district.  These satellite stations could also become spots for transit oriented development, thus creating good paying jobs and sustainable living options in our sprawlburgs.

3. Upgrading track capacity for commuter rail costs money that we don't have.  If Amtrak upgrades these same tracks for their service, that's less local money that will have to be spent on commuter rail later on down the line.

[Tripoli1711]

Lake.. I don't think your reply was in reference to what I said, but to clarify, I understand all that you just put and I am 100% on board.  I was really just asking about the other routes potential to turn a profit out of a curiosity standpoint because I am the first to admit my ignorance on these matters.  Another question to throw out there, not ever having taken Amtrak... what is the limit on baggage someone can take on, etc?  I'm thinking a lot of people who are coming from up North or even Canada for 2 or 3 weeks or a month might love to take the train to Florida rather than fly b/c they can take more luggage and not have to pay the extra fees the airlines are charging now.

[thelakelander]

Those are questions that Ock may be better off answering. 

My hope is that more frequent Amtrak services appeal to everyday commuters as well as long distance travelers, like it does in California.  For survey purposes, the images below represent my vision of local benefits that could come with an Amtrak corridor service.


Morning rush hour from Emeryville, CA on trains heading into Oakland.  Applied locally, Emeryville would be Orange Park and Oakland would be downtown.


A TOD at the Richmond, CA Amtrak station.  I see something like this potentially popping up in an area like the Avenues.



Bikes at the Davis, CA Amtrak station.  A scene like this could take place at the St. Augustine or DT stops, where residents from nearby walkable neighborhoods ride their bikes to stops.


Although, not in California, Philly's 30th Street station is a part of Amtrak's Keystone corridor service.  Here, you can transfer from Amtrak to other local mass transit options.  As a rail hub, our proposed JTC could offer just as many services in what is currently a dead section of downtown.

[brainstormer]

Excellent examples Lake!  Oh, if only the dream in our heads could become a reality for Jacksonville.  Eventually someone has to start listening right?

[Ocklawaha]

30TH ST STATION: RED CAP BAGGAGE ASSISTANCE

Wow, sort of reminds one of the original Negro League Team, THE JACKSONVILLE RED CAPS! Now you know where the name came from. BTW, when the airlines started they switched the name to "Sky Caps", the railroads refused to change.


BERNARD FERNANDEZ

Bernard was originally from Tampa, Fl. The son of Juan (Cuban) and Birdie (Nassau) Fernandez.

He was a pitcher for the Atlanta Black Crackers, Jacksonville Red Caps, Pepsi Cola Giants, Philadelphia Stars, Brooklyn Royal Giants, Pittsburgh Crawfords, New York Black Yankees and Richmond Giants from 1938 to 1949.


ALONOZO MITCHELL

Alonzo was a side-arm throwing right-handed pitcher who played from 1923 to 1941.

He also managed the Jacksonville Red Caps when they played independently between 1934-37.

Baltimore Black Sox, 1923, 1926
Atlantic City Bacharach Giants, 1924-26, 1928
Harrisburg Giants, 1926
Akron Tyrites, 1933
Jacksonville Red Caps, 1934-38, 1941
Birmingham Black Barons, 1937-38
Atlanta Black Crackers, 1938
Indianapolis ABC’s, 1939
Cleveland Bears, 1939-40

Alonzo was in the stands here at home when the Negro League played it's last game.

I want em both back! The Jacksonville Terminal AND The Red Caps, which I'd love to add to a Negro League Museum as a working all star volunteer team of black players from around the majors. They would play one or two benefit games a year here in Jax as the Red Caps. IMAGINE - "Tonight at the Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville, The Los Angeles Dodgers square off against the Jacksonville RED CAPS!"

Hell we could all ride the STREETCAR to the ball park!

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

http://www.youtube.com/v/5u5cOQGVGYs&hl
IF WE ONLY HAD A BRAIN - THIS COULD BE FLORIDA... HSR MY A**

I am in favor of expanding Amtrak, and I know a lot of politicians pay lip service to it, but I often hear them use the term "self-sustaining".  I know that metropolitan mass transit is almost never going to turn a profit, and that's ok.. but is there any realistic expectation that something like Amtrak could ever turn a profit and/or be "self-sustaining".  It doesn't seem very likely to me.  I wish Amtrak were more available and I would certainly use it, but I just don't see many routes outside of, say, the congested Boston-DC corridor having much chance of profitability.  Am I wrong?

Tripoli, The argument for profit has raged for years. Frankly when the federal government decided under a strict Republican administration to form Amtrak, the railroads were just looking for some protection from loss. They were also perfectly happy to continue with whatever was left of the National System (which BTW was about 4x the size of Amtrak's route system). No one was really looking for a complete take-over.

But the government got it and cut it to the bone, whole States lost train service, and routes where many trains had ran the day before suddenly had only a daily and quite basic service. While it can't be proved, it is strongly indicated that back room deals were made between certain officials, politicos and investors to "Get the passenger trains DEAD and out of the way ASAP!" This attitude blindsided at least 5 railroads who either "joined" Amtrak at the last minute or opted out for another 10-20 years. They were The SANTA FE, which still ran a first class train service from Chicago-California (They joined). The Denver and Rio Grande Western, which also ran a first class daily train that was in fact the final remains of the one time famous Chicago-Oakland, CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR, since the partner railroads had already quit the train, the Rio Grande operated it as the RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR between Denver and Salt Lake City, (They wouldn't join for YEARS). The Rock Island Railroad was in Bankruptcy and couldn't pay the "membership dues" to join Amtrak, so they too opted out and continued the Quad Cities Rocket and Peoria Rocket until they were liquidated in the early 1980's. The SOUTHERN RY, wanted no part of Amtrak and continued to run the Piedmont, Carolina Special and Crescent Limited because "NO G. D. Government Agency is going to tarnish our name for SERVICE!" They held out and brother what a show it was, a throw back to the spit shine of 1948, when they finally gave in, the last to do so, Amtrak was begging on their hands and knees for the CRESCENT LIMITED. SEABOARD COAST LINE, Jacksonville's own major railroad (today's CSX) was in the profitable business of fielding a fleet of trains from Chicago, New Orleans and Boston/NYC to Miami and Tampa every day. Specials ran all during the winter season and they were the last original member to give in and join the club. We promptly went from the best trains in America (except perhaps the Crescent and Santa Fe) to a complete rolling junk yard. The oldest equipment, the tail of the Amtrak dog.

Amtrak was forced into a position of never having a appropriation of funds, rather they went year to year for 35+ years begging for a very visible "subsidy" of a few hundred Million. They NEVER got a budget they could plan with and never got enough just to maintain what they had running. Meanwhile the Airline Industry was getting a cool 30+ BILLION a year, Highways 100+ BILLION, but no one ever saw that money. It was budgeted to the various agency's and never came up in a vote.

So the answer is profit? You've probably heard John McCain rave about how "Every Amtrak Ticket costs the tax Payer $34 dollars?" Honest Tripoli, read the back of the Semi Truck ("THIS TRUCK PAYS $11,000 DOLLARS A YEAR IN ROAD USE TAXES"). BIG DEAL huh? Did you know some quiz kid at MIT calculated all the trucks and buses in America and all their giant tax load wouldn't fill the pot holes in the PA Turnpike for a single year! Some profit huh? I'd call that closer to a free ride. Did you know the government spends between $50 and $600 dollars for every passenger that gets on a plane? Amazing, but Amtrak alone will break the bank according to the Right side of the aisle. So is it expense or investment in our future? The question vexes rail, but I tend toward INVESTMENT... After all we didn't exactly make a killing off of JTB or Roosevelt Bl last year.

HERES YOUR BAGGAGE INFO:  (Oh and BTW, try the train to Orlando and Tampa, walk back to the lounge car, have a drink, listen to some music, try the 1/4 baked chicken in the dining car... I'll bet you'll never drive it again).

SOURCE NATIONAL RAILROAD PASSENGER CORPORTATION - AMTRAK

Guidelines for Carry-On Baggage

Two-Piece Limit: Each passenger may bring aboard no more than two pieces of carry-on baggage. Not included in this limit are personal items such as purses, briefcases, laptop computers, baby items such as strollers, diaper bags and car seats, and equipment required for a passenger's medical condition such as breathing assistance devices and oxygen tanks.
50-Pound Limit: Each carry-on bag may weigh no more than 50 lbs.
Size Limit: Each carry-on bag may not exceed 28x22x14 inches in size. Carry-on baggage is limited to 11 inches on Pacific Surfliner trains.
Visible Tag Required: All carry-on luggage must be visibly tagged with the name and address of the passenger. Passengers may use their own personal identification tags, or may obtain free Amtrak baggage identification tags at station ticket offices, or onboard trains from a member of the train crew.
Special Items: Ski equipment, snowboards, golf clubs and bicycles may generally only be handled as checked baggage on Amtrak trains, and not as carry-ons. Items are permitted onboard when they can be safely stowed in the exterior lockers of Superliner equipment, or onboard equipment that is specifically designed to safely and securely accommodate the storage of the items.
Guidelines for Checked Baggage

Amtrak offers checked baggage service at many stations and on many trains and Amtrak Thruway motorcoaches throughout the country. Not all trains and stations offer checked baggage services.

Three-Piece Limit: Each ticketed passenger may check up to three pieces of luggage at no charge. Up to three additional pieces may be checked upon payment of $10.00 per piece.
50-Pound Limit: Each checked bag may weigh no more than 50 lbs. We will not accept heavier pieces.
Size Limit: Each checked bag may not exceed 36x36x36 inches in size.
Check-In Time: Check all baggage at least 30 minutes prior to departure, and longer for special items. Baggage checked less than 30 minutes prior to departure may be delayed.
Suitable Bags: Pack your baggage using sturdy luggage or containers that are capable of withstanding expected handling. Please note that we do not accept plastic storage containers, lightweight suit bags, and other similar items as checked baggage.
Baggage Tags: Attach your name and address to each item. Free identification tags are available at stations or from crew members, or you may use your own.
Where Available: Checked baggage service is available at many stations and on many trains and Amtrak Thruway buses throughout the country. See individual station pages on this site, available from the 'Stations' section, for more information.
Claiming Checked Baggage: Checked Baggage will be available for claiming generally within 30 minutes of arrival. However, some items may require additional handling and therefore may take up to 60 minutes. Be prepared to identify your baggage by the claim check numbers. Storage charges apply to baggage not claimed within two days of arrival.
ID Required: To check baggage, you must have a valid photo ID. For more information about ID requirements, please see our Passenger Security and ID page.
Special Items: Amtrak accepts a number of special items such as baby strollers, bicycles, golf bags, musical instruments, snowboards and skis (one board or set per bag/container). In most cases there is a handling charge of $5.00 per special item.
Bicycles

On many Amtrak trains, it's easy to bring your bike along. See more information about bringing your bicycle aboard the train.

Prohibited Items

The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:

Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon.
Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
Large, sharp objects such as axes, ice picks and swords.
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials, such as liquid bleach, tear gas, mace, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
Batteries with acid that can spill or leak (except those batteries used in motorized wheelchairs or similar devices for mobility-impaired passengers).
Club-like items, such as billy clubs and nightsticks.
Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment. (Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)
Animals (except service animals).
Oversized and/or overweight items.
Please note: This is not an exhaustive list. Any item similar to those listed, even if not specifically mentioned here, is prohibited from being carried onboard or checked as baggage.

Baggage to/from Canada

Baggage to or from Canada will only be accepted on the same train as the passenger. Customs regulations prevent unaccompanied baggage being handled across the border. All baggage must be unlocked for Customs inspection and bear an identification tag with passenger's name and address.

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

I don't know the trains you've been riding MTRAININJAX but I think I'd rate the train roughly equal with the cruise ship. The Airlines have become the flying cattle cars of the 21st century. Buses? Depends on Motor Coach or Bus, and even then the TYPE of motor coach. There is a world of difference between an MCI on a JTA commute and a SILVER EAGLE, PREVOST CAR, VAN HOOL, SETRA, or VOLVO.

That picture was NOT OF AN AMTRAK DINING/CLUB CAR. You can't BS a BS'er.

[mtraininjax]

1. Jax is the rail gateway to Florida. 

NS does have Class 1 service up and down US 441/41. To Tampa, so a direct Tampa to ATL shot would bypass the "gateway".

[thelakelander]

NS does not own any track heading into Tampa.  Nevertheless, it would be foolish on Amtrak's part to choose a route that would bypass Orlando and stretch out the trip to South Florida, from Atlanta.