Riverplace Skyway station is on fire...

[CrysG]

I don't remember I was 6, I'll remember to fact check my memories from childhood going forward.

[Prax_N_Jax]

my dad's work is right in front of the station. good thing the glasses on their building didn't melt.... looks like a scene from die hard

[Southbanker]

Finally, they have started removing the burned out old roof of the skyway station.  Wonder how long before they open it back up?  Has any timeline been published?

[BridgeTroll]

I have talked to frustrated users... the shuttle system seems to be the drivers personal van...

[Ocklawaha]

I hear it was probably an electrical fire....and I think someone posted on here the other day about a Skyway train shooting off sparks as it approached a southbank station...wonder if there's any connection?

The Skyway does have an ongoing issue with the wiper arms loosening the 3RD rail. On a heavy rail system the 3RD rail is a real railroad rail, on the Skyway, it's a small strap of jointed steel. This could be made easier if they would come in at night and replace the jointed power rail with a continuous welded rail. Any 3RD rail train can and will spark at the wiper, but there should be no reason to suspect this as the core problem, frankly on the running rails there is nothing flamable.

My three choices for cause:

The elevator and the electrical system that operates the lifts and or escalators. Escalators have been deadly in the past, in fact one of the infamous tragic mass death incidents happened due to an overheated escalators.

The Skyway like other monorails, PRT, or DPM transit, is automated. Thus each station has a room full of high tech switching gear. In fact having seen it, I can tell you it's impressive as Epcot. These massive rooms of wires and switches power all of the station functions, and give the operators back at the Skyway base, full control over the trains. Imagine a computer and switching gear the size of a nice walk in closet and you can see where there might be a fire.

Lastly it could be foul play, and that would be the worst of all causes. Frankly one could be prosecuted on FEDERAL RAILROAD CRIMES, terrorism, and a host of other things that would have the effect of destroying someones life.

As for sprinklers, they might be a good idea for the roof, and station platform area, but a dry chemical agent would make a lot more sense in the electrical control rooms. These agents remove the oxygen from the room and kill the fire. Putting water on an electric fire is like throwing gasoline on a flame.

Also lest anyone fear that my beloved streetcars and light rail systems are the same thing, relax. Yes they are electrical, but it's a much, much, simpler system. Generally, a transformer every 4-5 miles converts 13,000 volts AC into about 600 volts DC. The distance between transformers is governed by current drop in the DC lines. DC does NOT travel well over long distances, so the transformers give the line a boost to keep a constant charge. Other then that where the Skyway has a room full of gear at every stop, a streetcar will have one single wire, hung from catenary.


OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

I have talked to frustrated users... the shuttle system seems to be the drivers personal van...

LOL. This is probably better than the $ky-high-way and a lot cheaper too!  I suggest eliminating the $ky-high-way altogether, save the $4 million in losses a year, and pay a couple of van drivers a few thousand instead.

[9a is my backyard]

It's pretty bad guys. From what I hear, the entire red line out to the sports complex has been completely destroyed, and the green line extension into brooklyn is shut down indefinitely. Also, this could mean delays for the next few weeks while they repair the blue line that runs down to san marco.

Haha my thoughts exactly.  Oh how it would have been nice to take the Skyway to the RAM today.

[Ocklawaha]

FROM THE PHOTO ABOVE TO THE PHOTO BELOW IN ONE EASY LEAP!


Y'all might like to know that the SKYWAY "COMPLETED" is now back on the city's radar. The new consulting company that is working on the master plan for downtown took one look at it and said, "WTF? It's not finished?" Thus lines are once again being drawn on a map to Shand's, Blue Cross, San Marco and maybe the Stadium. With that would come new cars, longer 4-6 car trains and if we strike while the iron is hot, Uncle Sam will finance it.

Under the new rules the grants are going to be much easier to get, and the old "Try the BRT first" crap that kept coming out of Washington during the Republican reign is GONE! Now fixed guideway gets priority, add to that we have the US Congress Transportation Committee stacked in our favor. NOW IS THE TIME, GET 'R DONE!

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Ock:

Y'all might like to know that the SKYWAY "COMPLETED" is now back on the city's radar.

Sorry, Ock.  I agree with all your other comments on rail but I disagree with you on this one.  For two reasons: (1) It's a rat hole to put more money down it and (2) do this, and you can count on losing the FRAGILE community support for fixed mass transit projects such as street cars, light rail, and suburban rail because this will give it all an even bigger BLACK EYE (not everyone has your passion for rail, ya' know).

The $ky-high-way IS a COMPLETE SYSTEM.  See below.  New comers to Jax are being sold a bill of goods not knowing we have been down this path before.  Extending the $ky-high-way is not the HIGHEST and BEST use of our LIMITED MASS TRANSIT dollars or worthy of growing our multi-million dollar annual subsidy by LOCAL taxpayers.  When everything else is done, you can come back and play with this toy some more  .  P.S. Any politician pushing this is committing political career suicide.

ABC NEWS
$200 Million Ride to Nowhere
Almost No One Is Riding $200 Million Skyway

By Charles Herman
J A C K S O N V I L L E, Fla., July 29, 2002

The 2.5-mile Jacksonville Automated Skyway Express is a model of efficiency. Completely automated and controlled from a central operation center, the Skyway makes eight stops throughout the northeastern Florida city that is split in two by the St. John's River.

The only problem: hardly anyone rides it.

"It's strictly a waste of money from beginning to end," decried longtime Jacksonville critic Marvin Edwards. He blames the builder and supporter of the Skyway, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA).

"They lied about ridership projections," explained Edwards. "They said 56,000 a day at first, then dropped that to 30,000, then last it was 18,000 to 19,000."

Currently, the Skyway sees 3,000 riders per day who pay 35 cents a trip. In fiscal 2001, the Skyway brought in $513,694 in revenue but its expenses were $3.5 million.

Fights for Funding

The Skyway was first proposed back in 1971. It took more than a decade before the funding federal, state and local could be secured to start construction. At the time, the goal was mainly for development so the Skyway to connect the downtown core with parking facilities away from downtown.

The Jacksonville Skyway was part of three demonstration projects to see if "people-mover" systems could stimulate business expansion in downtown centers. Detroit and Miami received federal funds for similar projects.

Some officials within the Department of Transportation's Federal Transit Authority questioned the ridership projections for the Jacksonville Skyway.

In an interview with ABCNEWS' John Martin in 1994, Federal Transit Administration official Gordon Linton said, "We and this department, this administration and previous administrations, have not supported it."

Nevertheless, Congress eventually provided more than half the funds for the $182 million Skyway.

In 1987 construction began on the first 0.7-mile portion of the system.

"It was mainly for political reasons, not transportation reasons," explained former Rep. Bob Carr, who chaired the committee that approved funding for transportation projects in the early 1990s. "Like so many projects, they get a camel's nose under the tent and then it gets very very difficult to stop them."

Few Riders From the Start

In 1989 the first section was completed and opened to the public. Jacksonville's transit leaders projected more than 10,000 people would ride the Skyway a day on this 0.7-mile starter section.

Instead, only 1,200 rode the Skyway.

In 1993 Transit Authority member Miles Francis defended the system to ABCNEWS. "Until this thing is finished, there's no way to measure its performance or its potential."

Now it's finished and the Jacksonville Transit Authority is still waiting for the riders to come.

Open for Business

In November 2000, the complete Skyway opened to the public. Nearly two years later, with ridership at an average of 3,000 a day, the Skyway has not met even the projections for the starter section.

"No one will argue with the fact that ridership is not where we would like it to be," admitted Steve Arrington, director of engineering with the Jacksonville Transit Authority. He says the lack of riders is attributed to economic recessions in downtown Jacksonville in the early 1990s that led to a decrease in development in the area.

"Any number of things predicted to occur that didn't occur development-wise has an effect," he added. "Fuel prices, parking prices."

Arrington still believes in the Skyway and expects to reach its ridership goals. "You don't build a system like this or a roadway for the next four years," said Arrington. "You try to built it for the next 20 to 30 years."

Riding an empty car from one station to another, critic Edwards disagreed. "This really is a public rip-off and a total waste of money that could have gone for something not quite as fancy, but a lot more practical."

ABCNEWS' Jeffrey Kofman contributed to this story.

[reednavy]

I dunno, it sounds like what Ock mentioned may actually be coming to fruition. I would honestly hope so, this has too much potential to leave as is.

[stjr]

I dunno, it sounds like what Ock mentioned may actually be coming to fruition. I would honestly hope so, this has too much potential to leave as is.

What you appear to be saying is akin to the gambler who, having lost a tidy sum, says let's go for "double or nothing".  Why don't we just take the taxpayers money to the dog track and bet it.  At least we have a "chance" of winning.  The $ky-high-way has proven to have no chance at all. 

[TheProfessor]

Let's leave the skyway alone for inner city travel. It is already proved itself as a failed system and should be left as an elevated system.  I think north/south and east/west rail corridors need to be established in addition to the skyway and these systems will tie into the neighborhoods.  EAST-WEST would link the beach to the westside or at least downtown. The NORTH-SOUTH line would link the airport through downtown to the southside.  These would be in addition to the commuter rail lines and the buses could feed off of these lines for local stops.

[JeffreyS]

The skyway is not my first choice I like streetcar. But this statement is false.

It is already proved itself as a failed system

The skyway isn't built. It is an elevator that only goes to the 2nd floor of a 10 floor building.  We do not have to finish it but it may have worked had it actually been built.

[thelakelander]

That's an interesting perspective.  While I believe expanding the skyway should not come ahead of streetcars, commuter rail and Amtrak, what exists right now is a far cry from the original concept.








Connecting Shands, Springfield and Sugar Hill with DT and the county courthouse.  This plan would have attracted more riders than today's.


The current route overlayed over the original implementation plan.


The Downtown Master Plan transit plan shows potential future extensions to JMS and along Riverside Avenue.

[Shwaz]

It is already proved itself as a failed system
The skyway isn't built. It is an elevator that only goes to the 2nd floor of a 10 floor building.  We do not have to finish it but it may have worked had it actually been built.

It really goes nowhere now and still gets 3000 riders per day. I believe a line to Riverside alone would triple that. The Southbank has to have the most riders now because it convenient to many residents. Expand it to where the people are, create stops to attractions like the Stadium / Bay St. and watch it grow in popularity.