Rail in Jacksonville: Getting Started Immediately

[JeffreyS]

I agree the number one issue in Duval county is education. Education is the main reason so many young familys  with the means have migrited to St. Johns and Clay. Working in Duval and give other counties their property taxes.
The short sighted just take money from one project to band aid another is fools gold however.  Running the schools budget like that will ensure that as soon as that money runs out they are  in the same situation.  You have give the schools budgetary priority year in and year out at the local and state level.  The schools budget problems stem from Jeb investing their money in the sub prime mortgage market more than even the broader economic situation. Florida had been making real improvement before that.
You shouldn't just steal money the people of Jax put up in good faith that it would be used for transit.  That is just corruption defined.
Your dismissal of the suggestion of using city buses to me smacks of people who work in school systems mantra only more money solves any problem. You then reinforced this feeling by saying that river front property is unwanted. Have you noticed the new High rise develops they have stalled due to temporary national issues but clearly the developers like that area.  When you have real real budgetary problems to permanent services you need permanent dedicated funding services. 

[thelakelander]

Have you guys ever heard of Brain Drain?  You can have the best schools in the world, but it your quality of life sucks, you're kids leave for college and don't return.  While education is certainly important, its foolish to ignore everything else to focus only on schools.  This county has 850,000 residents.  We should be able to multi-task since many of the things we talk about on this site affect each other on the street.

[JeffreyS]

Agree completely. The three recent college grads in my family live two in NYC and one in Chicago. One is a ballerina with the New York ballet and she was going there if at all possible. The Doctor and the graphic designer could worked here if this city had been more attractive to them.

[Ocklawaha]

Right on Jeffery and Lake. Fact is if Jacksonville were more like San Francisco, perhaps all 3 of Jeffery's children would be working here. My oldest danced with Ballet Oklahoma, until knee surgery ended it. I went from sleeping through the dance to looking forward to the next one. I even have the tee shirt, "Real men don't lift weights, they lift women," Ballet Oklahoma.

There is a certain quality of life that good mass transit attracts, Florida hasn't experienced it since the 1930's and early 40's. The same era that most local historians agree Jacksonville stopped being a leading city and dropped to an "also ran" status. Every day some 42,000 person use the JTA buses, even though the system is wholly inadequate for a metropolitan area of our size. That equates to about 21,000 autos taken off the road daily. Anyone want to add that to Blanding? JTB? Beach? Roosevelt? during rush hours?

WORST COMMUTES IN FLORIDA BY RANK

Clay
Commute: 33.4 min
Statewide rank: 1

Putnam
Commute: 30.6 min
Statewide rank: 4

Nassau
Commute: 28.2 min
Statewide rank: 8


OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

They are not my children two younger cousins and a sister in law. I only point it out because I would love for this to be a city my son will choose when it is time. There is no fix this one thing and the quality of everything is taken care of. If you are saying education or transit you are not ambitious enough for me.

[Coolyfett]

What about expanding the Skyway? It should be extended into 5-Points/Riverside and to the stadium/coliseum area.

I agree with the opinion that Jacksonville should take care the inner core residence first. Yulee, Orange Park & Bayard is B.S. to me and they can get rail later Riverside, Springfield and San Marco should all have Skyway access, and start building those neighborhoods UP, especially in San Marco and Springfield. Build UP and no those lil 4, 5 story developments. Give the people the want to live that option THE option instead of forcing people who live in the core to live like they live in Yulee.

[Coolyfett]

Schools and mass transit are two different issues that are funded by different pots of money.  We can ignore transit all we want, but that will not get more money for schools.  It will just end up in roads.  If the schools are struggling, they should start saving money by eliminating school buses for middle & high school students.  There's no reason our kids can't ride city buses like they do in larger cities.  That's something that will help the school system save millions annually and increase JTA's ridership numbers.

Lake that is a very very good point!!! In major cities the kids use public transit to get to school.

[Ocklawaha]

Tampa's REAL restored 4 wheel Birney Car, found built into a local house. (We should be so lucky).

Jacksonville Traction Company had school fare tokens, so did City Coach Lines in the pre JTA days. There was some discussion about this around 1930, both pro and con but to some extent it lasted well into the 1950's and maybe early 60's.

I do know that the Traction Company had the right to have students suspended?  A local motorman told me that the four wheel birneys had long platforms at either end. Boys from Ortega or what he called the LEE HIGH SCHOOL BOYS, would overload one end, then start bouncing up and down until the front wheel derailed. Then run off yelling before the motorman could secure the car and take a strap to them.


OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

If I were up to me, I would not spend $100 million on the construction of a starter line.  I would spend a portion of that number on capital costs and set aside enough money to pay for a few years of O&M costs.  My plan would be something like this:

1. Pursue Amtrak by aggressively lobbying FDOT with other Florida municipalities. 

While not traditional commuter rail, an enhanced statewide Amtrak system would link DT with surrounding cities like Orange Park and St. Augustine.  Amtrak investment would also reduce the local cost of commuter rail by having us piggy back off their track capacity improvements.

2. $70 million in Streetcars

I would spend roughly $50-$60 million to construct a streetcar line between Riverside and Springfield.  The initial line would be "no-frills" to keep the costs/track mile low.  "No-frills" would include single tracking portions of the route, using existing public ROW, heritage streetcars (the cheapest), simple stops and combining rail improvements with already planned local streetscape projects. This would enable us to stretch the initial line out to benefit more from the start.  The remaining funds would be set aside and combined with fare revenue and sponsorships to help cover O&M costs for more than a decade.  This will allow the city to immediately enjoy the benefits of rail without having to worry about identifying long term dedicated funding sources right away.

In the meantime, I'd also develop the overall transit master plan and work with the city to make sure their plans incorporate future transit improvements.  A little coordination alone, would save this community millions in the long run.

The rest of the money would be used to speed up the process of applying for federal funding for additional streetcar, commuter rail, skyway corridors and bringing Amtrak back downtown.  I would also invest in aggressive transit related marketing campaigns.  Basically, you would have to live under a rock to not know that Jacksonville is investing in rail to not only improve transit, but also stimulate economic growth and infill in the region.

Excellent idea!!!
Do you have names, phone numbers and e-mail addresses we should all contact?
We should be able to generate 50-80 calls, and perk these folks' attention!

[fsujax]

The Amtrak issue is definatley going to be the most difficult. FDOT (Tallahassee) has to be lobbied hard and there has to be some major interest (resolutions of support) from every elected official body in NE FL to get this thing moving ahead.

[thelakelander]

Is there an effort to get other affected communities (Brevard, Daytona, Miami, etc.) on board with the Amtrak FEC stimulus request by the TCPC?  FDOT may ignore Jax, but it can only help if support comes from the entire Atlantic coast.

[fsujax]

Well, there is already vocal support from the Treasure Coast.

[tufsu1]

With Brad Thoburn's new position at FDOT, he could be very hepful

[thelakelander]

With Orlando's commuter rail deal on life support in Tally, Amtrak may be our best chance (in the next decade or so) for a rail link between DT and the surrounding counties.

[JeffreyS]

Any chance CSX will sweeten the pot to get the Orlando deal done. It seems like CSX already has plans for the money.  Jax should be trying to get CSX to throw in the North Florida ROW as an effort to save the deal. 
I do think or best chance is Amtrak and use our money on streetcars.