No Wealth created in 8 years, So called Windfalls and why Jax should Rethink.

Started by stephendare, February 16, 2009, 11:41:21 AM

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BridgeTroll

#15
February 17, 2009, 03:08:12 PM
I am simply agreeing with the article you posted...  I bet those who have money saved... and are not in debt are doing pretty well in this downturn... :)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

#16
February 17, 2009, 03:19:46 PM
Sure it does Stephen... but you are downplaying mom and pops contribution and it is not small.  In credit card debt alone mom and pop are living above their means by nearly a TRILLION dollars!!  Does that number sound familiar?  Add to that the money we have not saved... a couple more trillion...

Your article ends with...

QuoteIf you want to see what it really takes to boot the economy out of a debt trap, look at the large public works program, otherwise known as World War II, that ended the Great Depression. The war didn’t just lead to full employment. It also led to rapidly rising incomes and substantial inflation, all with virtually no borrowing by the private sector. By 1945 the government’s debt had soared, but the ratio of private-sector debt to G.D.P. was only half what it had been in 1940. And this low level of private debt helped set the stage for the great postwar boom.
Since nothing like that is on the table, or seems likely to get on the table any time soon, it will take years for families and firms to work off the debt they ran up so blithely. The odds are that the legacy of our time of illusion â€" our decade at Bernie’s â€" will be a long, painful slump.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

#17
February 17, 2009, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: stephendare on February 17, 2009, 03:15:35 PM
And I don't keep a credit card, never have.  Neither John Allen or I ever used a credit card for the past 8 years.

The bankruptcy practice made a very conservative person out of me, and I learned the hard lessons of others very well.



I am glad for you... perhaps you underestimate the hold this piece of plastic has on some people and families.  The monthly bill for this debt meets or exceeds their mortgage payments for many people!!  Worse yet... they consider this normal...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

#18
February 17, 2009, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: stephendare on February 17, 2009, 03:21:32 PM
So you are saying that we need another government program as massive as the new deal and ww2 combined?

No... but as sure as the sun will rise tommorrow we will get one.  I fear however until mom and pop american decide to pay off debt and live within their means again ... and do this as a lifestyle change... we are in for ever bigger problems.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

NotNow

#19
February 17, 2009, 03:32:34 PM
Stephen,

Where did you find this quote?
Deo adjuvante non timendum

BridgeTroll

#20
February 17, 2009, 03:34:13 PM
I am not "blaming" anyone... and apparently the author Paul Krugman feels as I do.  What sacred cows are you accusing me of siding with?  They most assuredly play a large role in this crisis.  All I am saying(and Paul K.) is we are leaving ourselves conveniently off the hook... how nice... :)

It is all... Their Fault...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

gatorback

#21
February 17, 2009, 03:39:34 PM
This is why hindsight is always dead on balls accurate.  I did put my money in remodeling my home and it made me a lot of money.  I think a lot of other home owners did the same thing.
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

BridgeTroll

#22
February 17, 2009, 03:42:58 PM
Oops... look who is keeping a low profile.  When is the last time you saw one of these?  What is the message here??  Cash is bad... slows everything down... gums up the process.  Plastic debit and credit cards get you what you want... quicker... no pain... worry about it later...  :o


http://www.youtube.com/v/9hXmyD9a4zg

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

gatorback

#23
February 17, 2009, 03:49:49 PM
Do they know about pawn shops? I heard they were now giving .50 for each CD or DVD.
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

BridgeTroll

#24
February 17, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
QuoteThe nation’s real tab, on the other hand, amounted to $53 trillion as of the end of the last fiscal year. That was the sum of our public debt; accrued civilian and military retirement benefits; unfunded, promised Social Security and Medicare benefits; and other financial obligations â€" all according to the government’s most recent financial statement of September 30, 2007.

Could it be Stephen... this is the way it is... because... in our OWN lives and families... we are doing the same thing?  We shrug our shoulders at the debt because... so freeking what.  I have debt... you have debt... we all have debt.

Why should the government be any different?  We want a war?  Put it on the card... Welfare?  On the card... Social security?  Break out that card!!  Why pay cash?... I got the freeking CARD!! :D
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

gatorback

#25
February 17, 2009, 03:52:50 PM
Mom and Dad got their first card when they retired at 65.  They pay it off each month.  I think a lot of people use cards that way.  I was never that way. I got my first card as a freshmen at UF. Been addicted ever since.
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

BridgeTroll

#26
February 17, 2009, 03:56:02 PM
QuoteMom and Dad got their first card when they retired at 65.

You have made my point.  Your mom and dad come from a generation where it was nearly unthinkable to owe more than you could pay.  My parents were the same as were their parents.  It is only recent generations that see revolving and ever increasing personal debt as the norm.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Doctor_K

#27
February 17, 2009, 04:35:29 PM Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 04:37:41 PM by Doctor_K
Regulations will only go so far though, no?  You can regulate or de-regulate things all you want, but that will only work to a certain degree.

At the end of the day, it's about living at your below your means and being fiscally responsible.  It's a way of life that's lost on this generation.  Because the Great Depression was 2-4 generations ago (depending on which guage you use), the lessons learned there have been mostly lost on our generation and the one that's come after us.  The Boomers and Gen X'ers have seen to that by not passing that lesson on to their kids - namely Gen Y and Gen i/the Millennials.

That same attitude should go double, triple, and even quadruple for the government.  But the government has the power to create fake wealth out of thin air (and the printing presses) via the Federal Reserve and the US Mint.  No such limitations or attitudes exist there.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create."  -- Albert Einstein

Johnny

#28
February 17, 2009, 06:10:46 PM
I need to give a shout out...

Fannie Mae! Freddy Mac! You the bomb dogs!

BridgeTroll

#29
February 17, 2009, 07:19:00 PM
Just a bit confused Stephen.  You posted an article... I agreed with 90% of it and you spend all day disagreeing with me and the article you posted.  Does it not say what you thought it said?  Am I dyslexic and have somehow misconstrued the main points of the article?  Perhaps if I say "white" you will say "black" just so we can add to our post count...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."
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