Jacksonville's Official Federal Stimulus List

[jtwestside]

I do not want to pay for anyone's irresponsibility but if I have to pick one the 12 kids over the Merrill CEO's million dollar office decorating.

Yeah, the nerve of that guy trying to put contractors to work on the at the expense of taxpayers. It's hard to tell if I'm talking about Merill's CEO or Obama! The only difference I see in the two is that the CEO's office redecorating about a year ago when the stock was hovering around 50, and PRIOR to receiving government money. What people really miss in all of this is that it's really up to the owners (shareholders) of a company to decide if a 1Mil office is excessive and apparently they were pretty happy with rewarding him at that time. Once the government came in and became one of the primary owners then we can criticize, but at that time everyone was happy.

Also, isn't Obama going to be putting a new basket ball court in at the White House? Who is going to pay for that?

The difference between the mother of 12 and the CEO is that one is a drain on the economy and resources, and one is a driver of the economy creating jobs and services.

[JeffreyS]

I don't want to be boxed into arguing all common welfare recipients are good and all corporations are bad. I do not believe that.  The question I was responding to was roughly why are people more concerned about giveaways to corporate giants than welfare recipients. I believe I accurately answered because of the size of the giveaways.   You  may not believe the size of the check matters but IMO that is why people are more concerned for one rather than the other.

[heights unknown]

"ARCHIPHREAK SAID:  I pay my taxes and I obey the law (mostly).  I don't need the governement (nor do I want them) to take care of me.  What I need, what we all need, is for government to get the hell out of our way and let the Free Market Economy do what it does best. *middle finger in the air to the government* 
Ok, I clearly need more coffee before starting the day."

I respect what you said archiphreak, but I don't agree with it.  I don't know what type job you have, what level up the corporate or job ladder you are at, or how long you've been on your job but everyone is not as fortunate as you (Son).  Lose your job and lose your ass and see what the difference is and how you perceive things.  Not everyone wants to munch or grovel from Uncle Sam but if you lose your job and you're sending out 50 resumes a day, and only get one interview or a phone call for an interview a week, and then 10's upon thousands are continuing to be laid off monthly, then you do the math; right now the job market is sorely over inundated with that person, who is trying so hard to find a job, having no other choice but to go to Local, State and Federal governments for assistance until they find a job.  All I can say to you ARCHIPHREAK is...don't lose your job!  If you do, you may know what it's like to finally have to go to Uncle Sam or some other entity to tide you over until you do find adquate work similar to what you are now making.....AND DON'T EVER SAY NEVER!  If you know someone (and you must if you speak so confidently, selfishly, and arrogantly), then my hats off to you; but don't beat people down when most are honestly trying to find work and just can't because of the inundation of the job market.  Keep your silence ARCHIPHREAK and be thankful you have a job and have compassion for those who don't but are trying to keep their families together by living off of Uncle Sam until they do find another job...whatever that may be.

Heights Unknown

[Johnny]

Welfare talk... I could really carry on with this conversation... BUT... I'll just say this -

Why does our military have to take drug tests but welfare recipients do not?

[JeffreyS]

Expense

[fatcat]

can I be upset with BOTH corporate welfare and private welfare? The reason the corporate get the welfare is they made donation to the campaign and the private welfare get to expand because they vote in the government that will expand it. It makes perfect sense.

[tufsu1]

Lake, this "bailout" is nothing BUT pork.  and it's going to "pork" us all right in the ass.

you must be the only architect not worried about their job these days!

[tufsu1]

The people who are angered more by corprate welfare than public do so for the same reason you are more afraid of drowding in the ocean than your tub. For practical purposes corprate welfare just has more impact on our tax dollars.

maybe...but social welfare is far more stimulative than tax cuts....check out Mark Zandi's analysis on Moody's.com

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/default.asp?src=economy_homepage

[fatcat]

BTW, I do not think our mayor is communist or socialist. He is not capitalist either. he is just incompetent in general. Calling him socialist is an insult to socialist.

[Charles Hunter]

Gee, two pages, and less than a handful of comments about the city's stimulus list ...

[ProjectMaximus]

stimulus list? what stimulus list?

[archiphreak]

Heights Uknown,
I love it when people disagree with me.  It makes conversation so much more fun.  To address your comments about me persoanlly.  You don't know me so you really don't have a leg to stand on.  I've been the guy that lost his job and spent more than 6 months trying to find a new one.  The difference is I was smart enough to have a backup plan.  I did not take unemployment or "munch" off of the government, even though it was well within my rights to do so.  But that is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with the current state of the economy and the issue of government trying to stick their nose in every aspect of our economic lives.  Look back (since you seem to sound as though you have seniority over me) to the late 70s when Carter completely screwed the pooch.  And then look at what happened when Regan took office.  We had double digit unemployment, deficits like we've never seen before and the economy was in a free fall straight to the bottom.  What did he do?  Did he increase government spending?  Increase the national debt to send a "stimulus" check to everyone?  No.  He cut taxes by 2/3 for the wealthiest BUSINESSMEN/WOMEN!  And what did that do?  In just a few very short years the economy turned around and we had one of the longest stretches of economic growth this country has ever seen.  This is not opinion.  This is historical fact.  So, while this discussion took a turn down the welfare highway, lets get back on track.  The government can not and will not save this economy.  That is simple fact.  They can buy votes by sending every Tom Dick and Harry a fat check, but that's nothing more than putting lipstick on the Pig.  Getting "free" money is not the answer.  And it's never free.  There are strings attached.  What happens when the tax "rebates" run out?  We're still in the shit.  The banks are still not going to be lending money because people's credit is in the toilet, so no one is buying cars, no one is buying houses, no one is investing.  But, if instead, we NOT spend this money, cut tax rates for the JOB CREATORS, then they would have free capital to increase their business, they can pay people more who can in turn go out and spend more, pay off debt, buy a car, buy a house AND BEGIN TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM.
So, Heights Unknown.  I thank you for your comments.  It seems that maybe we can agree to disagree.  I think that some government social programs have a necessary place in our society to help those who are genuinely less fortunate.  But show me someone who is genuinely less fortunate enough to take governement assistance.  Prove the stereotype wrong for me.  When I was a child my mother made less than $500 a month for the two of us.  This was in the early 80's.  We had NO money.  But she made too much to get assistance. So we made do.  Don't DARE sit there and tell me that some crack head with 12 kids deserves to be taken care of, cause you ain't gettin no sympathy out of me. 
And to the other comment about me not worrying about my job.  Since Odingo took office, I am more worried than I was before he was elected.  Because now I have to worry about ALL of my clients being strapped for cash since under this new plan only the rich will actually have to pay taxes.  So NOTHING will get built in the near future.  That scares me.
I think I've now become the most unpopular person on this message board.  YES!!

[Ocklawaha]

I can see this from both sides of the fence, as a Colombian Citizen, my "other" country is a blowtorch of capitalism. Free market reigns and don't EVEN think if you don't work your going to get fed. You can F'in
starve on the sidewalk and the busy shoppers will step over your body until the corpse wagon hauls you off.

But this unfettered system has created some huge social problems in Colombia. Those that do not excel in school are pretty much doomed to poverty. Poverty then equates to criminal activity, not out of anger or hate (as we see in the USA) but out of pure survival. Depending on where you were born and where you live, if you didn't have the same school opportunities you could be stuck on the farm for life. In this situation you find the early roots of drugs and Communism, or both. Drug Lords offer entire villages "Yankee Pay" and the impoverished become instant millionaires. The Communists offer bread, milk, uniforms and weapons and tell them "We will seize the power and YOU - THE PEOPLE - will lead us. It all looks very attractive on the surface.

Colombia has come to grips with most of these problems by building up a professional military. Bringing in or sending troops out to train with Israel, UK and USA. The air force is about 50/50 Israel (attack and bombers) and 50% USA with support aircraft, and helicopters. They used a carrot and stick to get at these disenfranchised people. The military now offers free education, college, skills, and just about all the perks of our own military, including home and retirement benefits. On the other hand they have attacked the revolutionary's with a vengeance, bombing them back to the stone age.

On the Civil side, the government has had to start some social service programs which include a national healthcare system with private insurance companies...a model we could look at. Healthcare is free to anyone the moment one steps off a plane, and since National ID cards and insurance are required the cost is so spread out that it is dirt cheap... Beyond that Medellin now ranks as one of the top cities in the world for medical treatments and surgery's. (Something I've experienced first hand).

Utilities, security, and transportation are also heavy priority's, with utilities billed on a sliding scale according to your income zone. For example Ortega or Ponte Vedra residents might pay as a zone 6 and NW Jax as a zone 1. So everyone pays, but according to their ability.

Ahh Yes, Utopia... "To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities." Me thinkith the sword doth cut both ways!

OCKLAWAHA

[Johnny]

JeffreyS, I think you are right that expense is the answer, but I believe it would more than pay for itself.

[FayeforCure]

Ocklawaha

On the Civil side, the government has had to start some social service programs which include a national healthcare system with private insurance companies...a model we could look at. Healthcare is free to anyone the moment one steps off a plane, and since National ID cards and insurance are required the cost is so spread out that it is dirt cheap... Beyond that Medellin now ranks as one of the top cities in the world for medical treatments and surgery's. (Something I've experienced first hand).

Utilities, security, and transportation are also heavy priority's, with utilities billed on a sliding scale according to your income zone. For example Ortega or Ponte Vedra residents might pay as a zone 6 and NW Jax as a zone 1. So everyone pays, but according to their ability.

My life was saved in Colombia by their medical system after a car accident. We need a National Health insurance system in the US. Why should for-profit insurance companies profit from our misfortune, when they have the perverse incentive to deny us care in order to boost their profits. Talk about corporate bureaucrats, who deny and ration out care. I much rather have a national insurance system, than the erratic and random denials by private for-profit insurance companies.
Just to make it clear, even in the US 60% of all healthcare is already government paid through the VA, Medicare and Medicaid, with the remaing people at risk of bankruptcy: over 50% of all banruptcies are due to medical catastophy and most of these people actrually had medical insurance, but co-pays and denied care still killed them.

So much for this crazy mantra of "personal responsibility"

Belive me, I am fiercely independent, but I do understand that folks aren't always as fortunate as I am. There is such thing as having empathy. Har-liners don't seem to have any. And don't tell me how much volunteer work you do, or how much you contribute to charity, because that is all hit and miss to who actually benefits.

That is why we have government to protect us ( the citizens) from foreign dangers as well as from domestic ones. Those who are rail fanatics should know that without government, and yes taxes, rail cannot become an integrated functional system in the US. We'd have a patchwork of disconnected bits and pieces. See, it's government as the independent citizen overseer who can coordinate things and make things a national prority.

And puleeez stop the ranting against welfare queens who drive a Lexus. That is so passe. If you were at all informed you'd know you cannot qualify for welfare if you own a car worth more than $4,000. So much for driving that Lexus!

Of course keeping yourselves fixated on the welfare queens keeps you from seeing how corporate greed at the hands of the corporate CEO's has run this country into the ground.

Oh, and as an economist I must add another piece of info regarding the stimulus plan that should open your eyes. Like tufsu1, I like to quote from Mark Zandi per his Congressional testimony:

So, for every $1we invest in Government Spending, we will receive back:
$1.73 for Temporary Increase in Food Stamps
$1.64 for Extending Unemployment Insurance Benefits
$1.59 for Building Roads, Bridges, Schools
$1.36 for General Aid to State Governments

For every $1 we invest in the Republican Tax Cuts Plan, we will receive back:
$1.02 for Non-refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate
$1.26 for Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate

Temporary Tax Cuts
$1.29 for Payroll Tax Holiday (Jobs anyone?)
$1.03 for Across the Board Tax Cut
$0.27 for Accelerated Depreciation ($0.73 Our Loss)

Permanent Tax Cuts
$0.48 for Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch ($0.52 Our Loss)
$0.29 for Permanent Bush Income Tax Cuts for the wealthy ($0.71 Our Loss)
$0.37 for Permanent Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts for the wealthy ($0.63 Our Loss)
$0.30 for Cut in Corporate Tax Rate ($0.70 Our Loss)

and let's talk about jobs for a minute,...........90% of the jobs created by the stimulus will be in the private sector:

JOB GOALS OF THE ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE
Energy: $68.2 billion. Double our renewable energy production, renovate public buildings to make them more energy efficient. Jobs: 500,000.
Science and technology: $10 billion in investments at the National Science Foundation and the National Institute of Standards and Technology. $40 billion in investments in America’s IT network infrastructure. Jobs: 949,000, more than half with small businesses.
Health Care: $110 billion. Training for doctors, dentists, nurses. Matching money to help states maintain Medicaid coverage for two years. Provides up to 12-month subsidized COBRA coverage for those who have lost their jobs. Jobs: 250,000 saved or created.
Education: $126 billion. Help local schools prevent teacher layoffs. Cover Head Start costs. School modernization. Money for work-study programs. Increases the maximum Pell Grant by $500. Jobs: 250,000.

Roads and bridges: $30 billion. Jobs: 835,000.
Public transit: There are 787 ready-to-go transit projects totaling $15.9 billion and $1.6 billion in ready-to-go state intercity passenger rail projects. Jobs: 200,000.

Water: $16 billion. Environmental restoration. Flood control. Jobs: 375,000.

Housing: $22 billion for home loans.
Green jobs: $20 billion in tax incentives over 10 years.
Business: Allows businesses to write off 90 percent of losses incurred in 2008 and 2009 against taxes assessed over the previous five years. This would not be available to companies that have benefited under the mortgage-related Troubled Asset Relief Program.
Tax cuts: $500 per worker filing under $100,000 in adjusted gross income, $1,000 per couple under $200,000. Provides $2,500 tax credit to families with student in college and $7,500 credit to first-time homebuyers.

AGAIN, and I keep asking this: Why no rail for Florida in the stimulus?

I do not know any local government who doesn't want "free" federal gocernment money to create local jobs. You?

Oklawa, how come you are a Colombian citizen? Are you keeping your citizenship for the free healthcare?