Mica seeks support for $650M rail project

[Charles Hunter]

I thought Mica meant the State of Florida as the "we" ... didn't he ask folks to support the Central Florida Rail Deal in the Legislature?

[FayeforCure]

I thought Mica meant the State of Florida as the "we" ... didn't he ask folks to support the Central Florida Rail Deal in the Legislature?

So why was the stimulus plan mentioned as no rail was was requested for Florida in the stimulus plan:
http://www.floridatoday.com/assets/pdf/A91248461222.PDF

File downloads
Full list of FDOT stimulus-ready list of projects for the whole state
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20081223/NEWS01/812230320/1006/news01&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL

[Charles Hunter]

We may be saying the same thing - Mica was blasting the State of Florida (Legislature and/or DOT) for not being ready to take advantage of transit money from the stimulus bill.

[FayeforCure]

We may be saying the same thing - Mica was blasting the State of Florida (Legislature and/or DOT) for not being ready to take advantage of transit money from the stimulus bill.

Actually no,.....I think he is implying that if they approve it now, it could get funded through the stimulus plan.

But that is a lie as there is nothing for rail in the stimulus plan. Here is the quote again:

With the U.S. Congress poised to approve a nearly $1 trillion stimulus package and plans in place to begin work on the project that eventually would stretch from DeLand to Poinciana, the timing is right to move forward.
“We’re the only thing standing in our own way,” Mica said.

I'm actually trying to figure out where the funding for the Central Florida Commuter rail is going to be coming from:

U.S. Rep. John Mica, minority party leader of the federal House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, says he’s secured more than $300 million to fund the Central Florida commuter-rail project. However, Mica produces no documentation to support his claim.

http://wrongtrack4florida.com/?q=john_mica

[BridgeTroll]

I see four railroad type projects for Duval... Ock can make more sense of it than I...

[tufsu1]

there is plenty of $ in the stimulus plan for rail, just not for Florida....and the only reason is because the Orlando commuter rail project is still in limbo....and that can be blamed on the Florida Legislature!

[thelakelander]

The City of Orlando has requested $9 million for the construction of four commuter rail stations in their city limits.  The requests are listed under "streets/roads" instead of "transit".

http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/stimulussurveyparticipantsdata.asp?City=Orlando&State=FL

[FayeforCure]

there is plenty of $ in the stimulus plan for rail, just not for Florida....and the only reason is because the Orlando commuter rail project is still in limbo....and that can be blamed on the Florida Legislature!

The Orlando commuter rail is independent from Jax commuter rail. Rail projects can take place simultaneously and are not dependent on one another.
Especially getting federal funding for an Amtrak run commuter rail into St Augustine shouls have been fairly easy given strong interest from Amtrak:

Speaking at a meeting of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority Commuter Rail Task Force last week, Jay McArthur, officer for state contracts with Amtrak, said the government-subsidized rail company wants to offer commuter rail on the Florida East Coast rail lines that parallel Interstate 95 from Jacksonville to Miami.

"Amtrak thinks the corridor between Jacksonville and Miami is very viable," McArthur said. "The Southeast is one of the most underserved regions in the country when it comes to rail, and Amtrak wants to change that situation."

The rail company set a record for number of riders in 2007 with 25.8 million.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102508/met_348092075.shtml

We're not all waiting on Central Florida, although John Mica would like us to believe that nothing else can be done until Central Florida gets going. It's been put out there as a threat by him, and it somehow seems to have materialized.

[Ocklawaha]

Streetcar Construction

I see four railroad type projects for Duval... Ock can make more sense of it than I...

Hello Friend Troll, as for "railroad type projects" I would agree as long as we are talking entire categorys of projects: 1.) Commuter Rail, 2.) Amtrak Hub, 3.) Streetcar, 4.) LRT to the beaches. We could toss in 5). FINISH THE DAMNED SKYWAY! (but we'll let that one lay for now as it's not true steel wheel on steel rail.[/black]


Light-Rail Construction

The Projects Break down something like this:

JACKSONVILLE COMMUTER RAIL:
Jacksonville-Shands-Bush-Airport-Yulee-Fernandina Beach/St.Marys(Kings Bay)
Jacksonville-San Marco-Avenues-Nocatee-St. Augustine
Jacksonville-Yukon (NAS)-Orange Park-Doctors Lake-Green Cove Springs-Palatka
*Jacksonville-Marietta-Baldwin-Macclenny / Baldwin-Starke-Alachua-Gainesville *(under study)

JACKSONVILLE AMTRAK HUB:

(Available Rail Routes From Jacksonville)

NORTH

Jacksonville-Waycross-Savannah-Charleston-Richmond-Washington-New York City
Jacksonville-Jessup-Savannah-Charleston-Richmond-Washington-New York City
* Jacksonville-Kingsland-Savannah-Columbia-Raleigh-Richmond-Washington-New York City (likely the High Speed East Coast Corridor)
Jacksonville-Jessup-Savannah-Columbia-Raleigh-Richmond-Washington-New York City
Jacksonville-Jessup-Savannah-Columbia-Charlotte-Charlottesville-Washington-New york City
Jacksonville-Jessup-Savannah-Charleston-Fayetteville-Norfolk
Jacksonville-Jessup-Savannah-Charleston-Wilmington
Jacksonville-Jessup-Savannah-Augusta-Atlanta

WEST

Jacksonville-Waycross-Manchester-Atlanta-Nashville-Louisville-Chicago
Jacksonville-Waycross-Manchester-Birmingham-Nashville-Louisville-Chicago
Jacksonville-Waycross-Manchester-Birmingham-Memphis-Carbondale-St.Louis/Chicago
Jacksonville-Waycross-Montgomery-Birmingham
Jacksonville-Valdosta-Macon-Atlanta-Cincinnati-Detroit/Columbus/Cleveland/Buffalo
Jacksonville-Valdosta-Macon-Atlanta
Jacksonville-Waycross-Albany-Columbus-Birmingham-Memphis-Springfield-Kansas City
Jacksonville-Tallahassee-Pensacola-New Orleans-Houston-El Paso-Phoenix-Los Angeles
Jacksonville-Tallahassee-Pensacola-New Orleans-Baton Rouge-Shreveport-Dallas/Ft.Worth

SOUTH

Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Waldo-Ocala-Lakeland-Tampa
Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Waldo-Ocala-Lakeland-Arcadia-Ft.Myers-Naples
Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Waldo-Ocala-Lakeland-Tampa-Sarasota-Venice
* Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Waldo-Ocala-Leesburg-Tavares-Orlando
Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Alachua-Gainesville
* Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Alachua-Dunnellon-Inverness-Brooksville-Tampa
Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Waldo-Ocala-Lakeland-Auburndale-Orlando
Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke-Waldo-Ocala-Lakeland-Auburndale-Sebring-West Palm Beach-Miami
Jacksonville-Orange Park-Palatka-Sanford-Orlando-Auburndale-Lakeland-Tampa-St. Petersburg
Jacksonville-Orange Park-Palatka-Sanford-Orlando-Auburndale-Sebring-West Palm Beach-Miami
Jacksonville-Orange Park-Palatka-Sanford-Orlando-Auburndale-Lakeland-Tampa-Sarasota-Venice
Jacksonville-Orange Park-Palatka-Sanford-Orlando-Auburndale-Lakeland-Arcadia-Ft.Myers-Naples
Jacksonville-St. Augustine-Daytona Beach-Melbourne-Ft. Pierce-West Palm Beach-Miami
Jacksonville-St. Augustine-Daytona Beach-Melbourne-Ft. Pierce-Pahokee-Belle Glade-Clewiston.

What Was that someone told me the other day about Jacksonville not being a hub for rail like those Northeastern cities? Uh? Yeah right!


Oop's the photo is too small, station's probably not important enough.

The City of Orlando has requested $9 million for the construction of four commuter rail stations in their city limits.  The requests are listed under "streets/roads" instead of "transit".

http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/stimulussurveyparticipantsdata.asp?City=Orlando&State=FL

Maybe this is key to the Florida Mind-Set Lake, we'll just call the trains "Buses, Roads and Bridges" and the State of Florida will get off it's ass.

there is plenty of $ in the stimulus plan for rail, just not for Florida....and the only reason is because the Orlando commuter rail project is still in limbo....and that can be blamed on the Florida Legislature!

The Orlando commuter rail is independent from Jax commuter rail. Rail projects can take place simultaneously and are not dependent on one another.

In this case both of you are 100% correct, it IS the State Legislature that refuses to move on the liability agreement with CSX. So while they can be done simultaneously and independently, since the Federal Funding and State funding all funnel through Tallahassee, NO ONE IS GOING TO BUDGE on this issue until Florida signs on the dotted line. The fact that we won't agree to the same package that every other commuter rail state has is beyond belief.

Especially getting federal funding for an Amtrak run commuter rail into St Augustine shouls have been fairly easy given strong interest from Amtrak:

Speaking at a meeting of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority Commuter Rail Task Force last week, Jay McArthur, officer for state contracts with Amtrak, said the government-subsidized rail company wants to offer commuter rail on the Florida East Coast rail lines that parallel Interstate 95 from Jacksonville to Miami.

"Amtrak thinks the corridor between Jacksonville and Miami is very viable," McArthur said. "The Southeast is one of the most underserved regions in the country when it comes to rail, and Amtrak wants to change that situation."

The rail company set a record for number of riders in 2007 with 25.8 million.

Tri-Rail Commuter Train in Southeast, Florida on the CSX.

This is where the press has derailed the train. Amtrak is NOT going to operate a commuter service between Jacksonville and ANYWHERE, including Miami.

Commuter Rail and Regional or Corridor Rail are two, maybe three different animals. Commuter Rail is a frequent short distance shuttle type service which usually operates no more then about 60 miles from a city core. This has NO resemblence to the Florida East Coast.


Amtrak Cascade Corridor in the Northwest, Spanish Talgo Equipment, double ended, push-pull.

Regional Rail, Such as Cal-Train or North Carolina's Piedmont Train, can be anything from a state or locally added train schedule to compliment what Amtrak already provides, or the State working with Amtrak to provide a longer distance IntRA-State passenger service. The equipment is different, the ride is different, and the comforts are closer to long-distance trains, even though they MIGHT (Oklahoma's Heartland Special) run in PUSH - PULL configuration. THIS is probably what we'll get from the State of Florida on the FEC, (as Amtrak already has libility agreements with all carriers) it will be a pure AMTRAK deal with no liability agreement needed.

Corridor Rail: This could describe the above services, but often refers to a high speed rail line. Frankly there are hundreds of corridor that have fast, frequent rail without the high speed, and they are successful. Who would have though Eugene, Oregon - Vancouver, B.C. would rank as one of the hottest corridors in the nation? The formula is simple, pay for Regional-Rail and grow it into a full blown corridor type service. The railroads don't mind because as traffic swells, so will plant. New tracks, 2Nd or 3Rd Mainlines, advanced signals etc. are fringe benefits of hosting this type of service. Florida should have LONG SINCE gotten with her sister Southern States and formed a Southern-Regional-Rail-Compact.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102508/met_348092075.shtml

We're not all waiting on Central Florida, although John Mica would like us to believe that nothing else can be done until Central Florida gets going. It's been put out there as a threat by him, and it somehow seems to have materialized.

Mica would like to see us advance our planning to the point where Central Florida is at, he cannot make the State approve the agreements with CSX. Even if we had ready to roll trains, we are stuck until the State and CSX get over their pissing contest. No more commuter rail is going to move in Florida until that happens.

However, as I said, Commuter Rail has NOTHING to do with the Amtrak routes, or Amtrak Regional Rail. The recent windfall of Amtrak funding included funds to study and restore the "Gulf Wind Route" (the former SUNSET LIMITED AMTRAK LINE). There is no reason why we should join South Florida into pressuring Tallahassee into getting the FEC route back. Also Georgia and Alabama are both ready to fund new train services on Amtrak. Gee do I hear the horn of the "Dixie Flyer" to Atlanta? or was that the "Seminole" headed to Birmingham and Memphis?

[thelakelander]

I think Bridgetroll was speaking about the rail related projects here:

http://www.floridatoday.com/assets/pdf/A91248461222.PDF

They are:

First Coast Railroad Amelia River Bridge - $2.27 million
Florida Northern Railroad (Newberry to High Springs) - $1.5 million
Florida East Coast Railway Jacksonville Lift Bridge - $700k
Florida East Coast Railway Sunbeam Bridge - $900k

However, as I said, Commuter Rail has NOTHING to do with the Amtrak routes, or Amtrak Regional Rail.

While they are all different projects, it is important to note that an Amtrak corridor service could be set up to where it benefits everyday commuters as well.  Caltrain, the Pacific Surfliner, Keystone, California's Capitol Corridor and Hiawatha Corridor are all great examples.  While pushing for regional rail, we should also push for an extra station or two, along each line, in our metropolitan area.  This will allow residents in communities like Orange Park, Macclenny, St. Augustine and perhaps the Avenues area to take advantage of the Amtrak system as an everyday commuting option between those spots and downtown.  Once local commuter rail comes on line, it will complement this service by offering additional stops along the established Amtrak corridors (ex. how Metrolink and the Coaster complement the Pacific Surfliner corridor service).  Personally, I hope if we are successful at enhancing the Amtrak system in Florida, it ends up being more similar to California's systems, as opposed to North Carolina's (less frequent train service with a lower amount of stops between major destination points).

[BridgeTroll]

  Thanks Lake... that is what I meant... but kudos to Ock for the above effort.  The more people exposed to what we could have / should have the better!

[Ocklawaha]

That is what I get for trying to answer everyone at once.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

The FEC RY St. Johns river bridge project is Paint and general cleaning... Maybe we can hope for PURPLE!

The Sunbeam bridge is a long overdue overpass in the Southside... Nice but where is the money for a San Marco Blvd and Hendrix overpass?

The First Coast RR, is a simple bridge paint and spruce-up that will involve a bunch of new wood piles.

The Florida Northern RR, has aparently gotten a spin off, of a spin off, from CSX. The line from Trenton to High Springs was once part of the ACL West Coast Mainline, has sunk to the point of being 5 MPH trackage. There is a huge PVC pipe plant on the east side of High Springs that needs rail service to continue, so this is most likely a rescue. I wish it was $$ for touching another industry or two to give the little line some security. There was talk a few years ago about a giant cement plant on the river north of town. The enviromental folks were pulling out their hair, and CSX had incorporated The "THREE RIVERS RAILROAD" to re-construct the old mainline (abandoned part) from High Springs, northward . If the enviromental issues were ever fixed, and the plant is still on go, this would make for a very good rail project for North Florida.

I don't like the fact that.

Tampa has only one carrier and only one route into town.

Florida has no access except through Jacksonville.

I love that all that traffic pours through our city but in a national emergency, we could pay big time for not having ourselves spread out a bit more. THINK ONE SMALL NUKE. Now how do you supply the Millions on the cut off end of the Florida Railroad System?

OCKLAWAHA