The current sad state of skyway stations and the system itself on weekends

[thelakelander]

I see Ock thinks it can be expanded for $20 million a mile.  Hmmm... since street cars, buses, rail are alleged to be cheaper, what is their equivalency to $20 million?

BUS - Light Rail Lite-BUS RAPID TRANSIT model $4-10 million.
STREETCAR - $6-12 million.
MONORAIL (Skyway) - $28-40 million.
LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT - $30-60 million.
BUS -BRT (quickway model) - $52-100 million.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/918/116/

[Ocklawaha]

Don't give up on the "step child of JTA". This is what our train would look like COMPLETE, from the original supplier.

My numbers say between $6 Million and $85 Million a mile. The reason for the gap is partly because of the many expensive urban area's where monorails have taken root - such as throughout Japan. Yet there is a low end that JTA and FDOT as well as COJ continue to thumb their collective noses at. THEME PARK SUPPLIERS.
... and THEY can do it for as little as $6 Million a mile, and do it RIGHT. Did you know that Walt Disney World is the number one monorail transit system on earth? In terms of miles, in terms of passenger loads, in terms of speed, in terms of comfort, across the board, while we sit in Jax and twist our collective craniums.

MORE? UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA: 

The project is funded with a grant from the U.S Department of Transportation. The secret ingredient is hydrogen power:

On Friday, the team of researchers gave a public demonstration of their monorail system on a working model about a fifth of the size of a real monorail.

The car hovers atop opposing magnets. When it passes through a gate, the motor senses its presence and releases an electrically charged magnetic pulse, powered by hydrogen fuel cells, which then pushes the car along.

Williamson said the monorail would cost about $1 million per mile.

Seattle decided not to build the Green Line, but the Montana researchers expect "to have a full-size monorail by the end of their four-year grant period, which they are now halfway through," says the paper

And what would a Skyway size train look like if it came from the THEME PARK PEOPLE? Same thing, for a fraction of the cost and a hell of a lot more test miles under it's belt.


OCKLAWAHA

[David]

Today I walked from the southbank over the main street Bridge to downtown to eat at one of my favorite lunch time haunts. It took me to approxmiately 17 minutes to walk from the Stein Mart building to Hemming plaza.

I boarded the skyway at Hemming plaza to save time and get back to the Southbank. After waiting at least 5 minutes I traveled to central station. I had to get off and transfer....I waited at least 10 minutes for a tram , even though the display said trains arrive every 2 minutes. I even saw the same skyway trams run short trips to to Jefferson station back. Another one went to Hemming Plaza/Rosa parks stations and back before I was able to cross the river.

By the time I had returned to work from my lunch break  had spent nearly 20 minutes traveling the skyway to get back.

I'm all for the concept of the skyway, but in it's current state it's just not an efficient or timely form of transit travel. I can bike or even walk to points downtown faster than skyway can transport me.

I really hope JTA is looking into a San Marco trolley again because when I worked on the northbank I did utilize the Riverside trolley quite often and found it to be more reliable than the skyway experience.

[Charles Hunter]

Seriously doubt they will consider a San Marco trolley - the FEC trains come through too often, and block the crossings for too long for the service to be reliable at lunch time.  Unless they extend the Skyway across the FEC (going south from Kings Avenue station, as has been suggested elsewhere on this board), this will always be a problem.

There must have been a problem (mechanical) with the Skyway, it usually runs more often than that.  At least I hope that's the problem, and not that they have cut back service.

[David]

I know the train's schedule all too well. I lose a lot of time stuck behind them on Hendricks on my 1.1 commute to & from work, but what if the service times were lowered to compensate for the lost time waiting on the train?

There's always the detour option over the Fuller Warren as well, but I won't even begin to think of what other logistical problems that may bring.

As for my trip yesterday on the skyway, it did seem the trams weren't coming as frequent as usual since I've rode it often in the past, but I was never comparing the transit times on it to how long it takes the walk the distance it covers. Since there's not many lunch options on the immediate southbank, I'm sure I'll time it again. If I can get from Riverplace station to Hemming plaza in less than 10 mins during a lunch break I'll definitely use it on a weekly basis. .

[David]

Alright, I've taken the skyway several times a week over the past month at my new job.

I'm going with my original impression: It's just not reliable enough for most people to use during a one hour lunch break.

Walking from Southbank (Treaty Oak) to the Northbank (Hemming Plaza area): 15 minutes
Skyway transit time: it's averaged closer to 20 minutes because I'm forced to exit at Central station and wait 5-10 minutes for a transfer to Hemming.

There's frequent departures for the Convention center from Central at during the lunch hours which baffles me as they're almost always empty. Wouldn't it make more sense to  have one or two dedicated tram to run from Kings Ave to FCCJ station and make those going to Jefferson/Conv station exit and wait for a transfer?

It seems if it could be tweaked to have faster transit times you could get the Southbank lunch crowd to use it more often.

In fairness the route I take to walk to get to the Northbank is only 1 mile...I believe the skyway route is a little over 2 miles so that's why I'm able to beat the times on foot, but still. You'd think it could travel the 2 miles in under 10 minutes. Put some nitrous on those go-karts!

$ 0.02

[BridgeTroll]

Great observations.  Are there others riding the same route as you?

[thelakelander]

Wouldn't it make more sense to  have one or two dedicated tram to run from Kings Ave to FCCJ station and make those going to Jefferson/Conv station exit and wait for a transfer?

It seems if it could be tweaked to have faster transit times you could get the Southbank lunch crowd to use it more often.

This makes a lot of sense.

[David]

Great observations.  Are there others riding the same route as you?

There's usually a handful, but not very many. The last couple of times i've rode on it it's been pretty desolate.

Hah, maybe I should get some numbers on those riding from the Conv Center/Jefferson Station to Fccj/Rosa Parks before being too hard on the skyway, but as it stands right now most people on the Southbank won't get much use out of it.

[stjr]

There's usually a handful, but not very many. The last couple of times i've rode on it it's been pretty desolate.

And, to my chagrin, there are those here pushing for expansion of this albatross.  They will just be "extending" the current and deep level of disappointment.  I am all for rail and street cars, but not this white elephant.

Common sense bowls me over   Ugly, gangly, slow, expensive, low capacity, hard to expand, street killer, proprietary devices, a psychological hurdle to approach vs. a street level device, absurd estimates by consultants at any level of completion that are off by 90% some 20 years later yet .... With due respects to Lake and Ock,  I just can't make myself drink this Koolaid.

[thelakelander]

I never said it should be a part of an initial rail expansion phase.  However, it should be a part of an integrated transit system.  If we have a regional rail system and streetcar system bringing riders into the downtown area, the skyway will be feed with a steady stream of users.  With the other components in play, short extensions make sense.  As long as it remains an isolated transit component, ridership will be dismal.

[tufsu1]

Alright, I've taken the skyway several times a week over the past month at my new job.

I'm going with my original impression: It's just not reliable enough for most people to use during a one hour lunch break.

Walking from Southbank (Treaty Oak) to the Northbank (Hemming Plaza area): 15 minutes
Skyway transit time: it's averaged closer to 20 minutes because I'm forced to exit at Central station and wait 5-10 minutes for a transfer to Hemming.

let us know how that walk is in July!

[David]

hah

#1, that walk in July will be just across the street from my work, or followed up by a shower.

#2, I just wish the current skyway we had would run in a more timely manor. It's not the best, the hopes of expansion are bleak, but at least tweak the current system to run a bit more efficiently.

#3, maybe turning it into a nitrous based tourist attraction isn't such a bad idea afterall.....

[ProjectMaximus]

#3, maybe turning it into a nitrous based tourist attraction isn't such a bad idea afterall.....

You mean like a roller coaster ride? That would be so cool! Couple that with the gondolas and zip-lines across the river...and I'm picturing something on a level similar to Ocean Park in Hong Kong.

OK, maybe not quite the same level. And OK, I'm just kidding about all of this. But it would be cool to flip, twist, dive and all that good stuff over the river, with the stadium and Modis seemingly under my feet...just for a day.