Fake look alike tickets part of money grab scam?

[DNeal]

Drop the thesauras for a moment and answer my question, Jack.  Why not just park on another lot?  You accuse me of being incapable comprehending the legal system all the while not understanding the most fundemental part of all--private property.  I tell you what, the next time you need $5 to park I'll gladly lend it to you, and while you're at it work on your resume (try to keep inflammatory comments and clumsy legalese to a minimum) and I'll forward it to some key individuals who can offer gainful employment for you.

I know by the nature of your postings you must be an all-around good guy and a real asset to the downtown community and a job would take you away from that but imagine the rush of pride and self-worth you will feel when you pay for your own parking space.  It will be an epiphany of sorts I promise.

[David K.]

Despite all the mental jockeying going on here, it's really quite a simple issue.

The parking entity is issuing tickets that are deceptively similar to city-issued tickets.  Their hope is to fool consumers into paying these fake tickets in an attempt at a quick money-grab scheme.  As someone else pointed out already, the lot's only legally-binding recourse is to have the cars towed...a practice for which they receive no money.  So while I see what they are trying to do, it is a shady practice which probably violates any number of consumer protection laws.

As for the consumer, quit violating the parking lot's policies or risk getting towed.  The tickets are not legally binding, so throw them away if you get one.  And be prepared to fight the charge because a company that would issue phony tickets certainly wouldn't have any moral opposition to reporting you to a credit agency.

[collection guy]

Can they submit the unpaid "bill" to a collector for collection?  sure they can, but its not a debt in a true sense, like a credit card debt, so they will not be able to report it on a credit bureau as an unpaid debt.  To do so would violate the Fair Credit Reporting Act and open them up for a suit.  

The issuance of these "bills" that look official could violate the FDCPA in the sense that they simulate legal process or appear to be an official government document.  Its uncertain whether or not the company that is doing the citing is actually the creditor, but if not  and the company doing the citing and collecting is someone other than the creditor itself, then they are engaged in the collection of consumer debts and are subject to the Florida laws relating to collection of debt and the Federal law, the FDCPA.  

The fact that they've been doing this for "over 40 years" means to me that its policy and is a widespread practice that if found to violate collection laws, could open them up to a huge class action suit which would probably end Central Parking corp.

If it were me, I wouldn't pay it  and then see if they use any other illegal collection tactics to collect this "debt" then sue them.  It wouldn't suprise me if they tried an official looking letter to follow the non-payment of the "ticket".  

[Jack of Jacksonville]

Thanks for validating some of my thoughts on this subject. Apparently you have some professional background in the consumer debt collection field.

Aren't violations of the FDCPA subject to very large fines per incident? I don't know about the specifics of these things because I'm just a poor starving artist that everyone hates (street mime).

[collection guy]

Actually the FCC handles the fines if they decide to pursue an action against a debt collector.  Those fines can be very large.  However most of the time an individual sues.  The statutory fine is only $500, but the collection firms sued have to pay attorney's fees and those can be quite substantial, particularly in class action suits.

Yes to the background, one of the worst offenders......not anymore though.

[Lunican]

Guiding Principles: Enhance Quality of Life
Great Ideas: Please pass this on to Mayor John Payton... Dear Mayor John Payton. Can you please help with the scam taking place at parking lot 189 managed by Central parking Systems. The only visable money box for paying your fees is located right next to where we parked. After paying the fees by sliding the money in the little slots with a tool provided we got a $30 dollar ticket on our car when we returned. The correct box to pay is out of site below all the car roofs and far away from where you walk out. Complaints to Ted Cible at 904-356-9841 and CPS were laught at. How many people are getting scamed every day. Everyone who visits the city is a potential victim of this scam. It is a big money maker for them. Plus the other other parking lot that I did pay is getting additional unjust money. Can you help correct the problem and cancel the abusive ticketing. Many of us are on extream budgets and can not afford this scam. Thank you, Ray Shelton.
Mayor's Update:

From: Peyton, John
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 2:34 PM
To: Carle, Robert
Subject: FW: Great Ideas

Can you look into this matter on my behalf?  Many thanks!

Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention, Mayor Peyton has asked me to respond.

As you pointed out in your e-mail, this particular lot is owned and operated by Central Parking Systems.  While we have no jurisdiction over such privately operated businesses, as one might expect, we have established a working rapport with the operators.  To that end, I will gladly address this matter with them and request their cooperation in making the lot more user-friendly.

If you encounter any more difficulties with respect to parking in the downtown area, please feel free to keep my name and number handy and I will work diligently in trying to correct them.

Sincerely,

Robert A. Carle

Division Chief
Parking Facilities and Enforcement Division
231 E. Forsyth St.
Jacksonville, Fl. 32202
(904) 630-1399

[gatorback]

Wow.  YOU MUST BE LUCKY.  If you did park there, and I'm not saying you did, and didn't pay, which you may or may not have done, then you're lucky you only got a what? $20.00 'BILL' instead of being towed at what 70 plus the hassle of finding your car in the middle of shadytown?

gezz, not paying is like theft of service.  are you a theif?  then pay the man.

[Skot David Wilson]

Damn, you guys litigated this and I feel like a judge listening after reading briefs....
If someone is parking on a "closed" lot then it is tresspass, yes, but if it is tresspass then their option is to call the police and charge them, or tow them if clearly posted. To present something that can be taken for or mistaken as a legal ticket is to present themselves as a legal authority, and that is illegal.
maybe the solution is to remove the need to use unfenced open spaces closed at night be insuring that there is parking available, and since there is a relaxed tax structure for parking lots and they run as a business making profit maybe they should pay more in taxes for that right. The mind set that allows so many bail bondsmen, pawn brokers, payday advancers, blood banks, used car lots and other "leach" businesses degrades society. Free roads and free travel also implies free parking when you get to free public events like celebrations downtown, and unless it is a parking garage or fenced, everything from parking metered street parking to use of unfenced areas should be made free by mandate of council.
If everybody wasn't so damn greedy all the time we'd have a better society, but the worst thing I've noticed about the South, and sentiment I share with other transplants who undrstand the difference, is that everyone usually seems out for themselves down here, and I have seen this for 19 years down here now. I spent time back on the Jersey Shore last year, and when you hit Wildwood or Seaside heights they simply don't care if you park in lots after like 8, 9 or 10 pm...as long as you're gone by morning when they charge for the day again.
Any councilmen out there want to draft something to resolve this like someone slightly evolved?

[Lunican]

Debt collector has to pay up

By David Bauerlein,
The Times-Union

A state crackdown on Jacksonville-based debt collection businesses won a $1.3 million judgment against Ellis Crosby & Associates, the attorney general's office announced Monday.

The judgment covers both restitution and civil penalties.

The penalties stemmed from an investigation that found the company's debt collection tactics included posing as law enforcement agents, threatening to seize debtor's property, and threatening to physically hurt people, according to the announcement by Attorney General Bill McCollum.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040808/bus_266051322.shtml

[Jason]

Wow, I'm surpised the good 'ol boy network wasn't able to sweep this issue under the rug. 

[newzgrrl]

In the last week, I've received two tickets; one on a private lot and one from the city. After carefully reading all these comments, I'm still a bit confused on what to do with the notice.

The private "notice" was issued last Friday night when my car was parked in my usual spot at the Ocean and Forsyth lot. I have never paid at this lot, although I have acted like it when attendants were in view. (I only park in this lot at night.) What I find disturbing about this "notice" is that it is for $57. That seems exorbitant.

Today I received a ticket for having an expired meter. I was parked near Burrito Gallery on Adams, at a two-hour meter (or so I thought). I dropped three quarters but only got an hour. The ticket was issued within the time that would have been covered by my third quarter. That fee is $15. My annoyance with the meters is that you don't know until after you've parked and exited your car how long the meter lasts. Recently I discovered 10-hour meters in the 400 block of Monroe Street. I thought every meter was for two hours.

With subsequent tickets or if I don't pay, the city can issue additional fines and immobilize my car. But what further action can the notice issuer take?

I understand that private lots are private property, and whether or not demand is there, it's still private property. (Though I agree there should be more ways of discouraging overnight parking if owners truly want the property free of visitors. Alas, if they secured their lots, they wouldn't make money in their sleep! It all makes sense now.)

The reason I don't like to get parking tickets or citations or notices is because of the reminder that Jacksonville lacks good public transit and I must drive my car some place in order to use the transit that is available. I prefer to take the Skyway, but I must drive to Kings Avenue Station -- a little over a mile -- to get onboard. (And I hate the idea of paying to park my car 1.7 miles from my house.)

[Lunican]

The only reason these comments are confusing is because we had a bunch of parking lot shills come on here and add their two cents. Pay the city ticket and throw the private one away. They can't do anything.

[Captain Zissou]

The private "notice" was issued last Friday night when my car was parked in my usual spot at the Ocean and Forsyth lot. I have never paid at this lot, although I have acted like it when attendants were in view. (I only park in this lot at night.) What I find disturbing about this "notice" is that it is for $57. That seems exorbitant.

I had the exact same thing happen to me on Friday.  I was parked in the same lot from about 9-11:30 and got a $57 ticket.  The lot was practically empty, but they felt that i was preventing potential customers from being there.

[Shwaz]

What a great bump!

I was ticketed at the 120 lot a few weeks ago when I stopped in Cafe 331 for a quick drink after work. I used to play in a band that rehearsed over Thee Imperial for years and I honestly thought the lot was free after 6pm. I parked there many many times and never got a ticket.

After reading this thread I called the contact phone# on the ticket and was redirected to Central Parking
(904) 358-6543. I punched in the first extension choice (227) and reached a gentleman in customer service immediately.

I explained that I was angry about receiving a notice that was made to look like the city's official parking ticket and that from what I could gather there was very little legal recourse towards my violation. I told him I would pay $10 which was more than fair or, if we couldn't come to an agreement I would just throw the yellow envelope in the trash.

He agreed, changed my fine in the computer and gave me a Water St address to drop off my $10 check.

Obviously this is in fact a 'money grab' and i probably could've gotten away with tossing the ticket... but I'm more than fine paying the reduced amount and washing my hands of the matter.

Newzgirl / Capt Z- I'm sure you could do the same... and thanks for all the info in this thread!

[BridgeTroll]

This may help...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071024091259AA9eK86

How do you fight a "private" parking ticket?

I received a parking ticket from a "private" ticketing company, Park Smart, Regional Parking, Inc. Everything I have found on fighting a ticket is for a city ticket. Any one know how to fight a private company? What happens if you don't pay? They have a dispute system; however, it requires you to give all of your contact information, and so I am not sure it is better to ignore the ticket. the disputing process gives no indications what grounds you may fight your ticket regarding.

A little more about the ticket: says, "Invoice for Parking Charge" and largely at the bottom "This parking charge notice is not issued by the city." It has my license number , state and year of my registration and car make. Violation states "Parked Over Time."

Also, if it is helpful, I live in California, Alameda County.

THANKS!

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

As it says right on the document you have, this is NOT a "ticket" or a "violation." It is an "invoice" for a "parking charge." In other words, a private company is billing you for money they claim you owe for parking in what I assume is their facility (or some other private location). If this were a citation issued by a private company on behalf of the city (and I have never heard of such a thing) it would say so. In fact, it says the opposite.

If you do not pay it, the most they can do is sue you. The DMV does not care about private contract disputes. It is probably very unlikely that they will sue over such a small amount, and they simply depend upon the intimidating look of the invoice to get people to pay. On the other hand, if you did, in fact, park for a longer period of time than you paid for, you might think about whether you really do owe the company the money, and what obligation you believe you have have in a moral, if not a legal, sense, to pay it.
Source(s):
30+ years as a criminal defense attorney.