Firehouse Subs closing

[copperfiend]

Does he own the "drug store" that charges $2 for a pack of gum?

[gatorback]

Wow.  All I'm asking is has he ever been to downtown Jacksonville not just the Landing.  If he's been downtown before then he'd know about the parking problem down there.  There's really no parking problem at the Landing. The landing is it's own little bubble, people say, "Hey, let's go to the Landing, or, I'm at the Landing" not, vs, "hey, I'm downtown near the old Firehouse Subs."  Huge diff. right?  The real downtown is north of Independance Drive, North of Bay, North of Water.  You can take a boat to the Landing, but you can't take a boat downtown--yet.   

[tufsu1]

I agree that meters that accept dollar bills and/or credit cards would be very helpful...or even centralized boxes on each block (like they have in DC)....

....that said, many of you have noted that there is a parking problem downtown...mainly that there aren't enough short-term inexpensive spaces....that's because too many office workers park in the meter spaces instead of the garages....imagine how much worse it would be if free parking were provided on the street!

the reason free parking works in San Marco, Riverside, etc. is because there are much fewer office workers so the spaces turn over quickly.

[gatorback]

I agree that relaxing the situation is a good idea.   Changing the perception is going to be enough work.

[thelakelander]

I agree that meters that accept dollar bills and/or credit cards would be very helpful...or even centralized boxes on each block (like they have in DC)....

....that said, many of you have noted that there is a parking problem downtown...mainly that there aren't enough short-term inexpensive spaces....that's because too many office workers park in the meter spaces instead of the garages....imagine how much worse it would be if free parking were provided on the street!

the reason free parking works in San Marco, Riverside, etc. is because there are much fewer office workers so the spaces turn over quickly.

Doesn't this sound like an enforcement issue?  Regardless of whether there are meters are not, parking enforcement would be responsible for ticketing violators, like office workers who park their cars in time limited spots all day.  Maybe that new van they purchased can help with this problem.

[RiversideGator]

tufsu:  This is the box:  []  Now, let's think outside of it for a minute.  If we (1) increase the number of available spots downtown on the street by adding in diagonals and new parallel spots wherever possible and (2) give free parking for 2 hours enforced by meter maids, wouldnt this tend to bring more people downtown by removing the disincentive of the lack of spots combined with the tickets (given after just 30 minutes or sooner if you dont have quarters or park in a spot which is wrongly marked as no parking) under the current system?  Also, the two hour limit, as explained before, would prevent downtown workers from leaving their cars on the street all day for the most part.  Again, a lack of parking isnt the problem downtown now.  It is the toxic atmosphere created by the meters and the tickets and the lack of free parking spots.  Get it?

[vicupstate]

I agree that meters that accept dollar bills and/or credit cards would be very helpful...or even centralized boxes on each block (like they have in DC)....

....that said, many of you have noted that there is a parking problem downtown...mainly that there aren't enough short-term inexpensive spaces....that's because too many office workers park in the meter spaces instead of the garages....imagine how much worse it would be if free parking were provided on the street!

the reason free parking works in San Marco, Riverside, etc. is because there are much fewer office workers so the spaces turn over quickly.

Free parking does not mean unlimited parking.  The two hour limit would still be enforced, just as I assume it is in San Marco/Five Points.   

[tufsu1]

this idea that san marco has fewer workers than downtown is patently ridiculous, incidentally.  San Marco has just as many workers with fewer parking spaces per person than downtown does.

downtown has a 40 percent vacancy rate at any time of the day downtown.

San Marco would panic if their numbers got that low.

Downtown thinks up new ways to penalize the remaining customers.

If DVI cant figure these basic, easily solved problems out, then DVI should go.

get real...more office workers in San Marco?
where the on-street parking exists?
I doubt this would be true even if you included the Southbank buildings and Baptist Hospital
please show me the stats!

[RiversideGator]

I think downtown clearly has more workers than San Marco but the point is the no meter regime works in San Marco.  What do we have to lose by trying this in downtown?  Our retail base there?  Nope, already gone.  I say give it a try.  Look at Greenville, SC for confirmation that this can work wonders in a medium sized downtown.

[tufsu1]

so now we're comparing Jacksonville to Greenville, SC?

I thought you all want people to stop thinking small and realize that Jax. is becoming a big city!

[thelakelander]

Phoenix is big, but Savannah offers more in terms of quality urban development and walkability.  The same would apply for Orlando and say..... Madison, WI.  Instead of "being the biggest", lets focus on "having the best quality of life".

The funny thing is that Greenville's downtown is much more progressive and lively than Jacksonville's.  If we had the type of environment Greenville has created since 2000, Firehouse would be hiring more help to serve subs late into the night instead closing up shop.  Just goes to show how far we have fallen behind the curve. 

[vicupstate]

^^  Indeed.  The daytime is the LEAST problematic period for parking in Greenville.  The evenings and weekends are now the issue.  Parking enforcement stops at 5:00pm and even though the municipal garages  are free in the PM, and the day workers are gone, the restaurant patrons and residents consume all the parking.   

On a typical day in each city, there are more people in one block of DT Greenville than the entirety of DT Jax.   

[RiversideGator]

so now we're comparing Jacksonville to Greenville, SC?

I thought you all want people to stop thinking small and realize that Jax. is becoming a big city!

I love your willfully ignorant style of argument.  It is quite ineffective.   

Greenville was offered as an example of a livelier downtown than Jax which has free parking and which became more active after the parking was made free.  FYI, I can tell you are not into travel or research, so I will just tell you that the Greenville CSA has a 2006 estimated population of 1,203,795.  The urbanized area is not quite as large as Jax but the two areas are pretty comparable.

BTW, are you Mark Rimmer?

[RiversideGator]

Oh and Stephen touched on a good point.  Specifically, workers downtown frequently go to eat lunch in Riverside and San Marco and Springfield but the reverse is not true as often (And, I know this from personal experience as one who owns an office downtown, spends most of my waking hours here and has friends and relatives who work downtown).  Please explain what key difference there is between the two areas with regard to the lunch rush, tufsu.

[thelakelander]

I must say, there have been times I've met people for lunch in downtown and have ended up driving to Five Points, Springfield and San Marco because it was much easier to do, than finding a couple of quarters to stick in meters during lunch hour.

Btw, here's a few pics of Downtown Greenville's Main Street, that I posted on MetJax about a year ago.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd love for a street like Adams or Laura to be as vibrant as this.