PEYTONS CHRISTMAS LEGACY

[thelakelander]

and bashing him has been successful so far?

I recommend that you all show up and make your views known during two important studies, currently underway:

I agree.  Bashing Peyton is not the answer for improving the community.  The answer is to keep vocally promoting the benefits of smart growth, even if it means pointing out that the current path is incorrect.  For all the slack it caused local officials, we were successful in getting JTA to reconsider their BRT plan.  That never would have happened by not publicly questioning the planning process.  So its very important to participate in these events.  These events are a chance to "poison the groundwater".

As for the FTA, I would hope that we would one day have to courage to move forward with a starter line (light rail, streetcar, whatever), without the FTA (ie. Houston Metrorail, Austin Metrorail, New Jersey RiverLine, Detroit commuter rail, etc.).  Things move much faster when you use your own money.  Get the starter up and running to show local example of a real system and then apply for federal federal help to expand that starter.

With this type of method, you can have something up and running within two or three years, as opposed to going through FTA hoops for a decade or so.

[thelakelander]

Better yet....organize.

While attending visioning meetings should be encouraged, the irresponsible movement of funding sources now should not be accepted and overlooked.  Venting and bashing the mayor or plan online won't change the immediate outcome, but expressing your concerns to the council in large numbers will.

This site receives thousands of unique hits a month.  Its also linked to the front page of Jacksonville.com.  We should take advantage of this and lobby the council against approving the plan to redirect mass transit funding sources for additional isolated road improvements.   All of these projects should be immediately be re-evaluated based on merit before any of them move forward.  The benefits of shifting the $100 million to rail should be considered as well.  Lobby to have our transportation projects ranked by cost, long term transportation and economic benefits.  Then let the chips fall where they may.

[vicupstate]

of course if anyone actually takes the time to look at the website from above, they would note that Jacksonville's list includes

$10 million for Amtrak
$12.5 million for transit
$15 million for airports

...and guess what....only $25 million for streets/roads....all for signage and resurfacing.

Ock, you may also want to note the $20 million proposed for cleanup of McCoy's Creek and Hogan's Creek

Is that better people?

I referred to streetcar and light rail projects.  All of the figures I listed refer to light rail and/or streetcar projects in the respective cities.

** An airport doesn't classify as either.
** The JTC is not going to have either a streetcar line or a light/commuter rail line running to it, so how does that count?
** the transit money is for JTA bus transit projects or the JTC.  Again, still no streetcar/rail projects.
** As for creek cleanups, etc.  That has nothing to do with this topic and the other cities requested similiar items, not just transit alone.

So, the $25 mmm for streets/roads is STILL $25 mm more than is being requested of transit of a light rail/ Streetcar nature.

[thelakelander]

After reading through the request of a few cities, I'm not buying the "ready to go" argument.  Miami is requesting $150 million to extend the Metromover to the Marlin's proposed stadium.  They didn't even have a stadium site a year ago, much less plans already drawn up for a peoplemover extension to it.  They claim it will create 3000 jobs.  This is the same thing as extending the skyway to Jacksonville Municipal Stadium.

After conducting a PRELIMINARY feasibility study last year, Charleston, SC is asking $25 million for commuter rail track upgrades on Norfolk Southern ROW, $45 million for commuter rail trains and $7.8 million for a rail intermodal center.  This would be the same as asking for commuter rail cars and upgrades along the FEC corridor after JTA's study proved that its a feasible transit option.

A preliminary study last year concluded that the idea was feasible. Cost comparisons between rail and road projects cited at the COG committee also are persuasive.

Widening the interstate from Summerville to Charleston by two lanes could cost $45 million a mile, or nearly $1 billion for the length of the 21-mile segment. In contrast, preliminary estimates put the cost of a commuter rail at $75 million.

Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley Jr., a strong advocate for commuter rail, also makes the point that "you can only widen the interstate so much."

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/mar/14/fast_track_commuter_rail33776/

Charleston Mayor Joe Riley reaffirmed his support Tuesday for creating a commuter rail line to the suburbs.

"It's not some futuristic thing," Riley told more than 100 people attending a meeting of the Charleston Green Committee at John Wesley United Methodist Church in West Ashley. "We need it right now."

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/10/riley_affirms_backing_commuter_rail53570/

The study for streetcars earlier this year, estimated that a DT to Five Points line would cost between $65 - $85 million.  We should toss in a request for its funding as well.  Ultimately, whether these projects get funded or not is unknown at this point.  However, this along with Mica's and Brown's calls for us to get on board with the commuter rail movement, is proof that COJ should add these things to the list.  After all, the worst thing the government could say is....no.

[vicupstate]

Here is a sample of cities that are requesting Streetcar/Light rail funding from the Economic stimulus act:

Charleston: $78 million

What rail system is Charleston asking $78 million for?  I thought we were ahead of them?  Have they even completed a feasibility study?

Here's the problem folks....the stimulus package is for 2009/2010...that means projects that put people to work RIGHT NOW.

Looking at the requests, it seems that many cities are presenting real wish lists to get things off the ground.  Its puzzling to see Charleston ask for $78 million for rail and we're further along.  Its also weird to see Congressman Mica keep telling us to request rail money NOW and we're still slow to react. 

The $78 million is for a 22 mile commuter rail line between DT Charleston and the DT of the inland suburb of Summerville.  [ I mispoke earlier when I said Light Rail, but that is how the website listed it]. 

There is a study currently underway on the project, but it is the THIRD study since 2006.  Each study is more in-depth (ie costs) than the prior one. Also, the current one (unlike the first two) includes research on a SECOND line between DT Charleston and the suburb of Goose Creek. 

All of the 22 miles right of way is owned by Norfolk Southern, and they are open to a track-sharing arrangement. The line  is in poor condition, which the $78 million would pay to upgrade.  Currently the track carries only one freight train daily.

While the metro area as a whole has a density of 1,833 per square mile, the areas along this route range from 3,000 to 10,000 per square mile.   DT Charleston has an employment base of 41,000.  Those numbers are quite strong, and don't even include the millions of tourists that visit the area.   The rail line runs parallel to the most congested highway in the region, I-26.

Mayor Riley is a strong proponent of mass transit in general, and rail in particular.  For example, when the new Cooper River Bridge was designed about six years back, he would not approve it on Charleston's behalf, unless it had load capacity to support not only the auto traffic, but could also support rail running underneath it. 

By any measure, I think you have to say Charleston is substantially ahead of Jacksonville on rail transit.   

Money, of course, is always the biggest issue.  That's why this economic stimulus package is timed very well from Charleston's perspective.   Preparation + Opportunity = Progress.

[ProjectMaximus]

The worst thing that can happen is Obama saying no. 

It seems to me that for some people in this city, the worst thing that could happen is we get rail funding approved.

[thelakelander]

I'm currently looking at Charleston's rail route.  Its not a bad one indeed.  I hadn't given it much thought but I may have to add Charleston to my short list.

Another thing that is interesting is the amount of money cities are asking for.  Despite Miami having nearly 400k less residents, they are asking for $3.2 billion.  Miami-Dade County is asking for another $1.5 billion.  Charleston is asking for $1.07 billion.  I guess we must be already well off because Jax's requests total up to $246.5 million.  Btw, I love Charleston's list.  There are a ton of requests for park development and enhancement, pedestrian bridges, bikeways, two-way street conversions, parking decks, reuse/redevelopment funds, etc.  It looks like nearly every unfunded project that's been conceived in that town is on the list for consideration.  I know Barton's Downtown Action Plan has a ton of unfunded dreams on it.  Perhaps those should be added as well.  Also, instead of taking BJP transit money for Peyton's road improvement plan, maybe he should toss his wish list on this as well.  These places are asking for billions.  What's another $100 million to the $246.5 we currently have?

[thelakelander]

The worst thing that can happen is Obama saying no. 

It seems to me that for some people in this city, the worst thing that could happen is we get rail funding approved.

Scary, isn't it.

[thelakelander]

- Tampa's list of requests add up to $110 million.  Most of their desired projects are for road construction and water lines. Zero for any type of transit enhancements. 

- Savannah is asking for $350 million.  Interesting requests include a Children's Museum and money for neighborhood commercial corridor revitalization efforts (Main Street Springfield anyone?).

- Orlando's requested projects add up to $484 million.  They have commuter rail station funding listed under "streets/roads".  There is also a large amount of request for homeless shelters and social service improvements.

I  know I'm getting off topic, but if you have the time, its interesting to see what type of projects different cities have in mind.  These requests are all over the field.
http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/stimulussurveyparticipants.asp