Nathan Bedford Forrest High featured on FoxNews.com

[MattnJax]

TheProfessor, I agree. It's quite well known that Forrest was a founder and early leader of the Klan, and for a Jacksonville High School, regardless of its grade or its racial breakdown, to be named after him is a shame both locally, and as shown by FoxNews, nationally. And I agree with a previous poster that all of the Jacksonville public schools named after Confederates should be changed. Anyone with half a brain knows that the Civil War was fought over Slavery. You can argue all you want to that it was fought over States' rights, but the underlying issue of the war was slavery. And for a few Duval schools to be named after Confederates (i.e. people that fought for and supported slavery) is a slap in the face to African-Americans, and Americans in general that were against slavery.


Also, anyone else notice that all of the people posting on here that are IN FAVOR of keeping the name were McCain supporters? Coincedence? I think not.

[RiversideGator]

I think we can hide behind history all we want.  The fact is Forrest started the KKK and it stands for something bad.  Regardless of what good Forrest has done, his name stands for something bad, locally and nationally and therefore we as a society should not celebrate what his name stands for by using it on an educational facility.  Granted I know the community should focus on improving the "F" status of the school, but I think renaming and rebranding a school with those who who utilize the shool can give the current students a sense of ownership instead of being owned by the past.

Shouldnt we instead seek to inform people about their history, professor?  Stating that the name "stands" for something means nothing if what it stands for is factually inaccurate.  I say get the truth out about Forrest and his amazing and admirable exploits. 

BTW, I have a good friend who is a Forrest graduate and he is strongly in favor of keeping the name.  In any event, the School Board had the final say and the name will stay.   

[RiversideGator]

The biggest reason if there were a name change, I think it would be justified is this.

Forrest High got its name in 1959, when the Daughters of the Confederacy, angry about the Supreme Court's 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision forcing school integration, pushed for the name.

Except there is NO documentary or testimonial evidence to support this oft made claim.

[RiversideGator]

TheProfessor, I agree. It's quite well known that Forrest was a founder and early leader of the Klan, and for a Jacksonville High School, regardless of its grade or its racial breakdown, to be named after him is a shame both locally, and as shown by FoxNews, nationally. And I agree with a previous poster that all of the Jacksonville public schools named after Confederates should be changed. Anyone with half a brain knows that the Civil War was fought over Slavery. You can argue all you want to that it was fought over States' rights, but the underlying issue of the war was slavery. And for a few Duval schools to be named after Confederates (i.e. people that fought for and supported slavery) is a slap in the face to African-Americans, and Americans in general that were against slavery.

Slavery was an issue which caused the War but not the only issue.  And, there had been sectional tension since the Founding including moves during the War of 1812 and earlier for New England to secede from the Union.  Heck, there is still talk of New England secession.  So, your statement is factually inaccurate.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Convention
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Secession
http://newenglandsecession.blogspot.com/

[RiversideGator]

Also, anyone else notice that all of the people posting on here that are IN FAVOR of keeping the name were McCain supporters? Coincedence? I think not.

I believe Ock supported Obama and he is a supporter of keeping the name "Forrest".

BTW, I supported the name Forrest since long before Obama was ever heard of.

[civil42806]

I think we can hide behind history all we want.  The fact is Forrest started the KKK and it stands for something bad.  Regardless of what good Forrest has done, his name stands for something bad, locally and nationally and therefore we as a society should not celebrate what his name stands for by using it on an educational facility.  Granted I know the community should focus on improving the "F" status of the school, but I think renaming and rebranding a school with those who who utilize the shool can give the current students a sense of ownership instead of being owned by the past.

I have no problem with changing the name of the school, I understand the objections.  But please  ", but I think renaming and rebranding a school with those who who utilize the shool can give the current students a sense of ownership instead of being owned by the past."  what nonsense.  renaming or rebranding, as a consultant, who got paid wayyyyyy too much much  would say wont have the least effect on the students performance. 

[MattnJax]

Also, anyone else notice that all of the people posting on here that are IN FAVOR of keeping the name were McCain supporters? Coincedence? I think not.

I believe Ock supported Obama and he is a supporter of keeping the name "Forrest".

BTW, I supported the name Forrest since long before Obama was ever heard of.

Actually, according to this post by Ock, he supported neither .... http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,3626.0.html
His is the 5th post down from top. Of course I don't personally know Ock, so I'm not going to put words in his mouth just going by what he wrote.

[RiversideGator]

Did you read what I posted earlier?  The New England secession movement of the 1810s had NOTHING to do with slavery.  Read more here:

The Hartford Convention was an event in 1814-1815 in the United States during the War of 1812 in which New England's opposition to the war reached the point where secession from the United States was discussed. The end of the war with a return to the status quo ante bellum disgraced the Federalist Party, which disbanded in most places.

Policies of Jefferson and Madison: cut off trade

Thomas Jefferson's anti-foreign trade policies, particularly the Embargo Act of 1807 and James Madison's Non-Intercourse Act of 1809, were very unpopular in the northeastern United States, especially among merchants and shippers. Jefferson's successor, President James Madison, was even less popular in New England, particularly after his prosecution of the War of 1812, which ended legal trade with England. The opposing Federalist Party, formerly quite weak, regained strength especially in New England, and in New York where it collaborated with Mayor DeWitt Clinton of New York City and supported him for president in 1812.

New England anger

When Madison was reelected in 1812 the fury in New England intensified. The war turned against the Americans, and the British effectively blockaded the entire coastline. Almost all maritime activity (apart from smuggling) was stopped and New England interests suffered. Forced at length to defend their own homes and firesides, Massachusetts and Connecticut now felt the repercussions of their opposition to Madison's position on relations with England. Instead of entrusting their governors with local defense, as the administration had entrusted the governors of States which supported the war, the President now insisted upon retaining the exclusive control of military movements. Because Massachusetts and Connecticut had refused to subject their militia to the orders of the War Department, Madison declined to pay their expenses. Consequently, the cry was raised that Madison had abandoned New England to the common enemy. The Massachusetts Legislature appropriated $1,000,000 to support a state army of 10,000 men. Harrison Gray Otis, who inspired these measures, suggested that the Eastern States meet in convention in Hartford. As early as 1804 New England Federalists had discussed secession from the Union if the national government became too oppressive. [1]

Secession was again in the air in 1814-1815; all but one leading Federalist newspaper in New England supported a radical plan to expel the western states from the Union. Otis, the key leader of the Convention, blocked radical proposals like seizing the Federal customs house, impounding federal funds, or declaring neutrality. Otis however did think the Madison administration was near collapse and that unless conservatives like himself and the other delegates took charge, the radical secessionists might take power. Indeed, Otis was unaware that Massachusetts Governor Caleb Strong had already sent a secret mission to discuss terms with the British for a separate peace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Convention

So, sectional tension and secession long predated slavery as a national issue.  As I said, slavery was an issue but not the only issue.  Also, if slavery was the ONLY issue, then why did some slave states not secede (Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and Missouri)?

[RiversideGator]

Also, anyone else notice that all of the people posting on here that are IN FAVOR of keeping the name were McCain supporters? Coincedence? I think not.

I believe Ock supported Obama and he is a supporter of keeping the name "Forrest".

BTW, I supported the name Forrest since long before Obama was ever heard of.

Actually, according to this post by Ock, he supported neither .... http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,3626.0.html
His is the 5th post down from top. Of course I don't personally know Ock, so I'm not going to put words in his mouth just going by what he wrote.

I did not see that.  I thought he had also said he supported Obama based on issues of mass transit.  In any case, the two things (McCain support and support for Forrest HS) are unrelated.

[MattnJax]

TheProfessor, I agree. It's quite well known that Forrest was a founder and early leader of the Klan, and for a Jacksonville High School, regardless of its grade or its racial breakdown, to be named after him is a shame both locally, and as shown by FoxNews, nationally. And I agree with a previous poster that all of the Jacksonville public schools named after Confederates should be changed. Anyone with half a brain knows that the Civil War was fought over Slavery. You can argue all you want to that it was fought over States' rights, but the underlying issue of the war was slavery. And for a few Duval schools to be named after Confederates (i.e. people that fought for and supported slavery) is a slap in the face to African-Americans, and Americans in general that were against slavery.

Slavery was an issue which caused the War but not the only issue.  And, there had been sectional tension since the Founding including moves during the War of 1812 and earlier for New England to secede from the Union.  Heck, there is still talk of New England secession.  So, your statement is factually inaccurate.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Convention
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Secession
http://newenglandsecession.blogspot.com/

Of course there's always been underlying tension between the North and the South because of one HUGE issue .... slavery. And might I remind you, it wasn't the North (or New England) that seceded from the Union, it was the South. And why did the South secede from the United States? Because they didn't want Northerners telling them that they couldn't have slaves. Face it, as much as you deny it, the Civil War was fought over slavery. If you want to Wikipedia something, Wikipedia the Civil War cause you either don't understand what it was fought over or turn a blind eye to it's main cause.

[RiversideGator]

Please dont be so presumptuous as to state that I do not understand something.  As for my qualifications, I have a degree in History.  How about you?  As for the issue of slavery, I did not say that it was not an issue.  I said it was not the ONLY issue.  As for slavery itself, certainly it was an evil but there was a better way to end it than to kill 600,000 Americans.

BTW, perhaps you should look up Lincoln's own statements about slavery and secession.  He basically said he would keep slavery to save the Union or he would end slavery to save the Union.  This is hardly a ringing endorsement for your view that the War was solely about slavery.

[RiversideGator]

BTW, the main issue of the Civil War was do the States have the right to secede from the Union which they voluntarily entered for any reason they see fit.

Since might often makes right on this Earth, the answer was no.

[MattnJax]

Please dont be so presumptuous as to state that I do not understand something.  As for my qualifications, I have a degree in History.  How about you?  As for the issue of slavery, I did not say that it was not an issue.  I said it was not the ONLY issue.  As for slavery itself, certainly it was an evil but there was a better way to end it than to kill 600,000 Americans.

BTW, perhaps you should look up Lincoln's own statements about slavery and secession.  He basically said he would keep slavery to save the Union or he would end slavery to save the Union.  This is hardly a ringing endorsement for your view that the War was solely about slavery.

You're obviously in denial that the Civil War was fought over slavery and that Nathan Bedford Forrest was a founder of the KKK. Being you're a fan of Wikipedia. I'll just throw out these two links for you to read so you can brush up on the Civil War and the founder the KKK. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Forrest

I think it's funny that in the first paragraph of the 'causes of the war' in the Wikipedia article on the Civil War that it mentions slavery, actually the first few paragraphs. Also, I think it's funny that in the very first paragraph of the Nathan Forrest article it mentions him as a founder of the KKK. Hmmm... but I guess that Wikipedia just doesn't know what it's talking about. Must be ran by Democrats right? wink, wink.

But you RiversideGator would have us all believe that none of this is true.

But alas I'm tired of arguing about it with you. You obviously have your distorted view of both of them that I'm not going to change. Just sucks that the five white members of the Duval County School Board have the same distorted view as you. Imagine that in such a progressive city like Jacksonville, not!

[David]

guys guys guys, the civil war was obviously fought over whether or not grits is better than oatmeal.

Seriously, check your facts.

[Keith-N-Jax]

RG I now see the method and reasoning behind your post here and in the political section I see the truth.