Costly rail service for Jacksonville would lose money

[thelakelander]

By LARRY HANNAN, The Times-Union

A proposed commuter rail system in the Jacksonville area will cost $543 million to build and $40 million a year to run, and won't make money, according to a yet-to-be completed study by a Jacksonville Transportation Authority consultant.

It is not clear yet where, when or if the money will be found to build the system.

The JTA asked the consultant, Gannett Fleming Inc. of Pennsylvania a year ago to look into using the existing rail lines owned by CSX and Florida East Coast Railway to create a three-pronged commuter rail system that would help get cars off the road. It would be part of the transportation authority's long-range effort for commuter rail flow into the downtown area, where buses or the Skyway would take people to their final destination.

A northbound line on CSX tracks would go to Yulee; a southwest line on CSX tracks to Green Cove Springs; and a southeast line on Florida East Coast tracks to St. Augustine.

The construction cost does not include a new transportation center at the Prime Osborn Convention Center, the starting point for all three commuter rail lines.

full article: http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110808/met_353501754.shtml

[thelakelander]

Although James gave a pretty good answer, I'm disappointed in this TU article.  I don't think I've ever read about a local road project (like SR 9B or JTB's widening) not being able to turn a profit, yet costing millions more per mile.  There was also no mention of the cost comparisons between this system and the proposed BRT estimates.

Furthermore, they have this thing stretching all the way to Yulee, Green Cove Springs and St. Augustine.  Once studies get further along, you'll see it begin to materialize into a shorter system with higher ridership numbers and cheaper costs.  Relaying the S-Line track is also a way for the system to make money for annual O&M operations and to take port truck traffic off the street.  Working with Amtrak is another way to properly phase a local system.  For example if Amtrak starts up a corridor service between Jax and Miami, running several trains per day between the cities, there's no reason to extend commuter rail to St. Augustine.  None of this is stuff is new.  We've been putting these things online and discussing them in public meetings for years now.  I'm disappointed that the reporter did not do his homework, thus creating a negative oriented article.  This type of reporting does not help the fight to turn public sentiment to more responsible growth.

[thelakelander]

I just noticed it, but they also show the image of a light rail train, while the topic is about commuter rail.  After all the reporting and studies, do they still not understand the difference?

[JeffreyS]

The Article isn't bad it fails to mention as most articles do that roads are built at more of loss for the same public benefit. The title would not have been able to be used in even my junior high newspaper because it editorializes.

[fsujax]

The title of the article is a big turnoff. I was very disappointed. After reding through the article, it didn't sound too bad, but a different title would have helped.

[ProjectMaximus]

I don't think this is the first lousy article I've seen by Mr. Hannan.

[JaxByDefault]

This article is most likely a self-solicited hit job. The TU wouldn't have run this without JTA issuing a press release or asking for the story. It reads like it is taken from a release with a follow-up quote added.

JTA is thus putting the word out there that trains are expensive. . . without admitting that their BRT plan is more expensive both in terms of outlay and per-rider cost. Also, the apples to oranges comparison fails to note that the BRT plan doesn't go to where people live now-- let alone St. Augustine.

Time for a MetroJacksonville letter to the editor.

[jbm32206]

I agree, that it seems staged....I also agree that it's time to apply more pressure from the public, to 'find' that funding. We need light rail!

[Ocklawaha]

While were at it, why not toss some of these numbers at them?

http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/

Commuter Rail Will Cost Big Bucks + OCKLAWAHAS RANT

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

PUBLIC INVITATION:

TO:  LARRY HANNAN, The Times-Union

Larry, you have my number, if not check my Jacksonville Transit Blog. This is an invitation for you to spend a day on the rails (in a locomotive cab), under them, and all around them for a day. Hell, I'll even toss in Greyhound and JTA. You say when, and you and I will make it a fun filled day of learning from the old Brass Hat.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

The funding is there, if we really want it.  The first thing we have to do is freeze the spending of the BJP $100 million for rapid transit right-of-way, make a commitment to move forward with rail and complete an integrated mass transit master plan.  From that point:

Narrow the focus

A proposed commuter rail system in the Jacksonville area will cost $543 million to build and $40 million a year to run, and won't make money

When we hear about the Outer Beltway, they never talk about the total costs (Northern segment + Chaffee segment + Southern segment).  Instead all we know is the southern segment will cost at least $1.8 billion.  JTA's study is covering an insane 91 miles of track.  Metropolitan areas five times our size, such as Dallas (36 miles) and Miami (72 miles) don't have commuter rail systems that extensive.  As a long term plan, its great to stretch rail into Yulee, but to get something off the ground the focus needs to be narrowed to a short, yet effective and affordable starter line.  If this is done, that $100 million could be used to get the line up and running and pay for a few years of O&M costs.  As the system expands, then leverage the starter as the local investment needed to gain matching federal and state funds for additional expansion.


Don't forget about Amtrak

These guys are armed with $15 billion in cash and are begging to partner with the State for a corridor service.  Lets stop wasting time and team up with Amtrak and Florida's other communities to get additional trains running between Jax, New Orleans, Tampa, Orlando and Miami.  Increased Amtrak service could come with stops in Orange Park, Green Cove Springs and St. Augustine.  This could be used as a commuter service between our satellite communities while our local focus is on getting an affordable starter line up and running.  In the meantime, Amtrak's money would be used to to fund many of the same improvements needed for commuter rail.  This means, our overall local investment would drop over the long term.


Stop whining about the need for dedicated O&M costs

The S-Line should be viewed as a way to stimulate income.  Its not like the traditional answer of raising taxes but it has a lot of validity to it.  It provides a direct connection between FEC and Tallyrand.  This means we can shift more truck traffic to rail.  If its publicly owned, we may stimulate revenue by giving freight carriers the ability to use it.  Also, the S-Line could bring private sector rail dependent warehousing, manufacturing and logistics jobs back to blighted inner city industrial areas, increasing property values for the city.  Furthermore, back the rental car tax proposal South Florida has been pushing.  If passed, it would provide funds to all commuter rail systems in the State.  Combine money made by freight service on the S-Line with the farebox, rental car sales tax and perhaps wrap advertising and we may be able to have enough for annual O&M costs without raising local taxes.

Give the media the middle finger

At least until a starter is finalized.  For whatever reason, these guys don't get it and keeping things simple for them will totally eliminate negative article headlines such as this.  This is important because this is a city still wrapped around the automobile and sprawl with little to no vision.  Getting rail is already an uphill battle with the skyway debacle.  Bad press isn't going to help the situation.

[alta]

Has anyone from from Metro Jacksonville been able to get an interview with the local media (print or tv) to present our side of the argument?  This seems to be a trend with the media.  Instead of any investigative journalism they just report talking points and press releases at face value. 

[thelakelander]

We've interviewed with the local media plenty of times over the last couple of years.  We even gave a presentation to the TU's editorial board.  The points we make today are the same ones we've been making when we started our push for rail.  Its frustrating to see that after all the interviews and meetings, there is still a lack of understanding.

[JeffreyS]

We've interviewed with the local media plenty of times over the last couple of years.  We even gave a presentation to the TU's editorial board.  The points we make today are the same ones we've been making when we started our push for rail.  Its frustrating to see that after all the interviews and meetings, there is still a lack of understanding.

It doesn't seem like a misunderstanding. The title is an opinion that predicts the future basic no nos in report the news journalism. They can do it if using a quote with quotations or noted paraphrase. Instead it was printed as a statement the TU's endorsement of fact. They know this isn't proper so it was done intentionally for effect.  Trying to be the cause of effect is another no no for reporting the news and smells of agenda. 

[Coolyfett]

co-sign.....he is leaving so much info out of the article.