Downtown Development Update: What's rising, what's delayed

[jaxlongtimer]

Using our Super Bowl experience, Bay Street from Main to the Stadium, can make for a great street festival.  Street is wide, lined with some bars and restaurants, and people can park on either end, at the sports complex that has plenty of parking or in Downtown spaces.  Just pick days the Jags or other events don't conflict.

[marcuscnelson]

^ I can't imagine FDOT agrees to a closure of that nature for anything smaller than the Super Bowl. Too primary a street to lose the LOS on and there aren't effective modal alternatives to get people around the area.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ I can't imagine FDOT agrees to a closure of that nature for anything smaller than the Super Bowl. Too primary a street to lose the LOS on and there aren't effective modal alternatives to get people around the area.

Is Bay Street an FDOT road?  I thought that was a City street.  FYI, we close FDOT bridges all the time for charity runs and the Gate River Run that last a few hours.  That's a lot worse than closing Bay Street for a few hours.  I see lanes closed on San Jose Blvd./State Rd. 13 all the time for marathons too. FDOT officials have told me they regularly work to allow closure for community reasons when they can.  I don't see an issue on Bay Street on a Saturday or Sunday if there are no events at the sports complex.  As wide as Bay Street is, they could always leave one lane open as a one way street if needed and cars can go around the block on parallel streets if they need to go the other way. Where there is a will there is a way!

[thelakelander]

I don't believe that Bay, east of Main, is a FDOT street.

[Charles Hunter]

Pretty sure you are right, that Bay Street is a city street, not a state road.

A couple points
- If the idea is to create a pedestrian zone out of the street, leaving one lane open for traffic doesn't seem to be safe.
- There's not much of a street grid there for alternative routes. It can be done, but some of the options aren't obvious.

[jaxlongtimer]

Pretty sure you are right, that Bay Street is a city street, not a state road.

A couple points
- If the idea is to create a pedestrian zone out of the street, leaving one lane open for traffic doesn't seem to be safe.
- There's not much of a street grid there for alternative routes. It can be done, but some of the options aren't obvious.

If there is nothing going on at the sports complex, my experience is you could shoot a canon down Bay Street there and not hit anything on a weekend.  We are talking about taking a dead zone on weekends and putting it to use.

If joggers can run along moving cars on major streets during marathons with much higher speeds and only traffic cones separating them from vehicles, I would think that if we had to keep one lane open on Bay Street at 30 mph (or less during events like you have in construction zones) we could make it reasonably safe.  Thousands walk it to the Jags games with 4 full lanes of cars and bicycle shuttles darting in and out and no one seems to worry about that.

Otherwise, just close the street entirely for several blocks (maybe just short of Maxwell House) and property owners walk to their business a few extra feet if they are even open on weekends. I would also anticipate use of JSO for traffic control and enforcement.

There is a reason a street exists.  So, any street you close will cause potential inconvenience to someone. We even close the interstates for accidents for hours.  If we can do that, and survive, we can close a portion of Bay Street on a weekend and do the same.

What other street on the Northbank would one suggest closing that is less intrusive to others?  Water Street?  Block off the Center for Performing Arts, CSX, the Marriott, Riverwalk, etc.?

[thelakelander]

Back to the dead pedestrian malls of the 1970s and 80s lol? What went out of style years ago is back again!

I'd say we're already doing something similar with the Emerald Trail's Hogan Street corridor.

Gateway Jax will also have Klutho's Alley. Construction on that project, which is adjacent to the Porter House Mansion, is almost finished.

The real key to these things are having density and reasons to consistently be there. Streetscapes without complimentary land uses and programming, don't accomplish much outside of beautification and multimodal safety enhancements.

[Ken_FSU]

Pearl Square and the city working on open container legislation for the area.

Love it.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/pearl-square-proposal-design/77-cb37dd4d-d191-4e0f-a043-0f498203c43b

[Jones518]

/quote]


I truly hope conservatives stop attacking the wmeral trail
As waste because the project overall is meant to address long time flooding and drainage issues near hogans creek... which if you know the area is very necessary infrastructure work...

[Jones518]

I'd say we're already doing something similar with the Emerald Trail's Hogan Street corridor.

I truly hope conservatives stop dismissing the emerald trail as "waste" or a "pet project" because the overall project is meant to accomplish a number of things... one thing that i appreciate is that the emerald trail will address long time flooding and drainage issues near hogans creek... which if you know the area, that is very much necessary/needed infrastructure work...

the unnecessary friction when it's time to discuss real solutions for the hogans creek area is truly draining....

[/quote]

[jaxlongtimer]

Using our Super Bowl experience, Bay Street from Main to the Stadium, can make for a great street festival.  Street is wide, lined with some bars and restaurants, and people can park on either end, at the sports complex that has plenty of parking or in Downtown spaces.  Just pick days the Jags or other events don't conflict.

Add London to major cities closing streets to vehicles.  Wonder if City officials took note during their recent visits to London for the Jags games.

Shoppers replace buses as London pedestrianizes part of Britain's �busiest shopping street
An almost milelong section of Oxford Street is now closed to buses, cars, taxis, cycles, scooters and pedicabs, the office of London Mayor Sadiq Khan said.

Part of London's Oxford Street, Britain's �busiest shopping thoroughfare, went permanently traffic-free Monday in an effort to revitalize the area and create a new public space to boost economic growth.

An almost milelong section is now closed to buses, cars, taxis, cycles, scooters and pedicabs, the office of London Mayor Sadiq Khan said.

The move has been more than two decades in the making. ⁠It and a wider regeneration project aim �to ⁠put Oxford Street back among top global shopping destinations including New York's Times Square, Paris' Champs-Élysées and Barcelona's La Rambla.

"After ⁠so many false dawns, and now working with a government who �share ⁠the scale of my ambition, ‌I'm proud that we're finally unlocking a new era for the street," Khan said.

"Revitalizing Oxford Street will boost jobs and economic growth ‌in the capital."

Oxford Street, connected to ‌Bond Street and Regent Street and home to John Lewis, Marks & Spencer, Tiffany & Co. and many others, has struggled since the Covid pandemic, with the arrival of U.S. ⁠candy stores putting off many shoppers.

The pedestrianization is the first stage of a transformation, although minimal construction will take place during the run-up to Christmas, a busy shopping period.

Plans for 2027 include more than 50 new trees, 100 new seats, two public squares, rest areas and better signage and lighting.

Oxford Street attracts around half a million ‌visitors every day, according to the mayor's office, but many �flagship stores including House of Fraser and Topshop have shut ‌in recent years, and Khan ⁠said the area had been neglected.

"This marks an exciting ⁠new chapter for Oxford Street, creating a greener, more vibrant place that will attract visitors ‌and investment, support businesses �and jobs, and drive growth in ‌the heart of our capital," �British Housing, Communities and Local Government Minister Angela Rayner said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/united-kingdom/london-vehicle-ban-oxford-street-boost-shopping-uk-sadiq-khan-rcna605675

Mayor of London at opening ceremonies.

[thelakelander]

London's population density is more than 15,000 people per mile and there are tons of tourists. What works in London, won't necessarily work in Jax.

Just look at the building density in the picture you posted. Jax doesn't have streets with that type of density, that go on and on for miles.

[jaxlongtimer]

London's population density is more than 15,000 people per mile and there are tons of tourists. What works in London, won't necessarily work in Jax.

Just look at the building density in the picture you posted. Jax doesn't have streets with that type of density, that go on and on for miles.

Ennis, as the London article implies, it is chicken and egg.  They are closing the street to further increase investment and activity as the street was declining.  Maybe if Jax would close off a few blocks on a street reliably over time investment to densify the street here would follow.  Doing nothing will get us nothing.