Jacksonville is Losing its Identity

[Ken_FSU]

When I first moved to Jacksonville, the things that I most strongly associated with the city as unique differentiators were the Jacksonville Landing, the Skyway, the 11 AM to 11 PM river taxis, the massive Regency Square Mall, Adventure Landing, the Southbank MOSH and River City area, and concerts at Met Park and Freedbird Live. These were all things that you couldn't really find in other cities that gave Jax a bit of its own feel.

In rapid fire succession, these things have all been erased from existence, and without them, I feel like we're rapidly turning into a rather nondescript mid-sized city. We've never been good at preserving our past, but it's kind of wild to see all these things just quietly disappearing. It feels like it's getting harder and harder to describe what makes Jacksonville unique, which to me, is a really significant, self-inflicted problem. 

[thelakelander]

Although, I moved to Jax in 2003, I grew up spending a lot of my childhood in the Northside during the 1980s and 1990s.

Regency Square was a dime a dozen in Florida (it wasn't close to being the largest mall in Florida by then) and every major Florida city built a festival marketplace, peoplemover and science museum back then.

All were one trick pony downtown revitalization projects of that era. Tampa razed their downtown peoplemover back in the late 1990s before building the TECO streetcar line.

All the festival marketplaces eventually closed except Miami's Bayside. Church Street Station in Orlando is mostly vacant now and Tampa's Harbourplace is a part of a hotel now. Jax, while dumb, was the only to demolish prematurely.

Despite this, none of these 1970s/80s era projects define each city's unique identity. To me, Jax's authentic unique identity is its historic neighborhoods, people, culture, foodways and natural environment. 

For example, Jenkins BBQ may permanently close, but the mustard-based sauces associated with our story is still here and being served in hole-in-the walls and on corners all across the city. The same goes for camel riders, garlic crabs and Mayport shrimp.

As long as we don't drain the Timucuan Preserve, Heckscher Drive will offer a low country coastal setting that no other major metropolitan city can replicate.

I believe that we've still failed to incorporate authentic Jax into downtown. In fact, we've tried to suppress or remove it through urban renewal, demolition and public policies limiting long time local cultural traditions, such as fishing, from the riverfront.

The city's sense-of-place in the neighborhoods that birthed it, as well as our natural environment, is still well and alive and ready for those willing to accept it, take advantage and reintroduce back into the downtown scene.

Its a great opportunity we continue to have. We just have to embrace it and stop ruining our existing built assets.

[jaxlongtimer]

Having grown up in Jax, I am missing the gradual and near-total loss of green forested and open spaces.  In my youth, it was almost all pine forests down Beach and Atlantic, from University to the intracoastal. Likewise from University to St. Augustine on US 1 and out US 17 south of Orange Park.  I-10 past Edgewood was a backwater.  Palm Valley was truly palm valley, populated by hundreds of thriving palm trees.  Ponte Vedra was the backwater of the Beaches outside of the club area.  210 was a two lane road through pitch black darkness at night.

Nobody outside the area ever heard of Fernandina or Amelia Island.  While St. Augustine was better known, you could still almost always find free parking on its square anytime.

The beaches were quaint little ocean oases, with a get-away-from-it-all weekend vibe.  Downtown still had decent remnants of department stores, restaurants, vibrant office buildings and major company HQ's, and easy-to-find cheap or free parking.  While the 1960's took out lots of historic downtown, a good bit still remained giving it a certain distinctiveness and aura of the past.  Areas like San Marco, Mandarin, Riverside and Ortega, while spotting more expensive homes near waterfront, were otherwise middle class affordable.

You could transit from any part of the City to any other part within 10 to 20 minutes mostly.  The 4 lane Buckman and I-95 never had traffic jams and you always knew you could depend on moving at speed limit (or faster) given the lower volume of cars, even in "rush hour."  I-295 and JTB didn't exist.  UNF was "new" and in the middle of the woods.  The Hart, Matthews, Fuller Warren and Trout River bridges all had tolls.

Restaurants were mostly fast food and few and far and few between compared to today.  Eating out was special, not an everyday affair.  "Better" restaurants were all family run, not chains. 

Public school education ruled the day.  Very few religious or private schools and no charters.

To Ennis's point, most every building of significance in any part of the City that existed in the 70's, 80's or earlier is gone.  Anyone coming back to Jax after being away for 30 or more years would likely be lost today.

I estimate Jax had about 1/6th or less of the area population of today yet the urban area still had a "big city" feel.

To me, the ultimate identity of Jax that has survived time, is the river, intracoastal and the beaches along with our little remaining wetlands and forests.  To be fair, the degradation of our environment extends across most all of Florida today.  Very little of what I recall from childhood remains anywhere in this State so I would say Florida, too, is losing its identity.  Every part of this State could be "anywhere else."  Maybe this also applies to much of the U.S.  Everything is a chain, a commodity, stripped down to its basics, disposable, just enough-to-get-by, devoid of character, in-a-hurry, not to slow down and "smell the flowers."  The only respite can be found in our larger local, state and national parks.

[soepic]

As a resident that has been in Jacksonville as a toddler to an adult since the 80's, I agree with all the opinions given. Especially with the insight of how the entire country is becoming beige and basic. But I will say the thing I miss the most does involve The Landing. I am missing the central gathering place for the whole city for uniting events. Nothing beats the Tree lighting, Jag or Gator Bowl Pep Rallies, and community events. I remember as a kid becoming a fan of the Olympics, when the torch made a stop at The Landing for the 96 Atlanta Olympics. I know we have Riverfront Park, but it's something to see 2 stories filled with people for events coming together. Yeah, the crowds were crazy for some events, but it was the default for everyone in the city to go to celebrate. I miss the uniting space. There is nothing that matches that vibe anywhere in the city. Plus, even though many cities had a river marketplace, The Landing was always the spot to take visitors or family. I had a aunt that every time she was in town, we had to make a stop at the The Landing and Harry's for oysters. But we still have the river, beaches, and parks that are unique to Jacksonville. I would say one positive change, as a kid, I loved going to the Main Library (Haydon Burns) and walk around downtown. Then, it felt more empty with a lot of empty buildings. And now most of those buildings are now reopened or have some life to them. A lot can be done to make it better, but that fact that I live in a building I once was amazed by and that was once abandoned.

[fsu813]

SAVE THE ORANGE DINOSAUR BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

[thelakelander]

Haha, I don't get the dinosaur but the Landing was a huge loss. DT Jax does miss that central gathering space and I'm not sure we've adequately planned to effectively bring one back. Riverfront Plaza and the planned hotel aren't necessarily being designed to have that same type of draw for an increasingly diverse population.

Maybe JWJ Park becomes that spot one day but to get there, we'll need to intentionally begin to revitalize the "outer square" with surrounding supporting uses.

[vicupstate]

As long as we don't drain the Timucuan Preserve, Heckscher Drive will offer a low country setting, coastal that no other major metropolitan city can replicate.

One of the most underappreciated yet awesome things about Jacksonville, IMO.  The first time I drove it, I was like 'WOW. I can't believe I am in a big city and yet seeing this'.

Thanks, Charlie Bennett.

[tufsu1]

All the festival marketplaces eventually closed except Miami's Bayside. Church Street Station in Orlando is mostly vacant now and Tampa's Harbourplace is a part of a hotel now. Jax, while dumb, was the only to demolish prematurely.

ummm - did you mean just in Florida? Weren't you just at Faneuil Hall in Boston? And South Street Seaport in NYC was rebuilt and reimagined, but still going

[Ned Plimpton]

In my youth, it was almost all pine forests down Beach and Atlantic, from University to the intracoastal. Likewise from University to St. Augustine on US 1 and out US 17 south of Orange Park.  I-10 past Edgewood was a backwater.  Palm Valley was truly palm valley, populated by hundreds of thriving palm trees.  Ponte Vedra was the backwater of the Beaches outside of the club area.  210 was a two lane road through pitch black darkness at night.

Nobody outside the area ever heard of Fernandina or Amelia Island.  While St. Augustine was better known, you could still almost always find free parking on its square anytime.

The beaches were quaint little ocean oases, with a get-away-from-it-all weekend vibe.  Downtown still had decent remnants of department stores, restaurants, vibrant office buildings and major company HQ's, and easy-to-find cheap or free parking.

With these kind of natural amenities in close proximity to what was a banking and insurance hub, it's not hard to see why people chose to move to Jacksonville.  The city should have done a better job managing growth, providing transit infrastructure, and preserving wild spaces along the way.  I agree that the main things that make Jacksonville unique are our natural amenities and cultural traditions.  Going forward, we need to protect the environment, preserve significant wild habitats, provide education so that people understand why it's worth protecting, and celebrate and talk about the chefs and others who are keeping our culture intact.

[Ken_FSU]

Fully agree on the Landing. To me, the loss was less about losing a "mall" or a festival marketplace - though we did tell more businesses to pack up shop when we closed the Landing that we've added to all of downtown in the years since.

Instead, the loss was even more about losing that center of gravity for the city. For decades, when something big was happening, the Landing was understood to be ground zero. When Jacksonville won the Jags, thousands of people organically flocked to the Landing to celebrate. When Georgia-Florida took place, that was where you went. Tree lighting. Boat parade. Olympic Torch. Political speeches. Every piece of travel and marketing literature leading up to Super Bowl XXXIX centered on the Landing.

We had that center of gravity through the 1970s with Hemming Park. We had it with the Landing.

And sadly, getting back to (surprise) a lack of master planning, we not only no longer have that center of gravity, but we haven't even defined what or where it will be. Which isn't just a logistics question. It's a question about how and where we convert our foot traffic for key events into economic vibrancy and sustainability into our key corridors. 

I've tried to stay positive on Riverfront Plaza because so much work has gone into it, and because it's a minor miracle it was funded and will be completed on time, but to me, it's a colossal miss versus the potential that existed for that space. Too awkward with too little flexible space to be that Town Square. No real vision for how it all comes together, or how it is programmed throughout the year. The children's playground is beautiful, but beyond that, it's just nondescript parcels of unshaded green space. Still can't get over the fact that they elevated the central lawn high enough to block river views from Laura Street.



And, as I've said many, many times, James Weldon Johnson Park is a generational opportunity to bring back some of that history that we've long neglected and return the space to a highly flexible, heavily programmed Town Square that pulls pedestrians in from the river, Pearl District, UF, and the CBD, while pushing them back out into the surrounding blocks to stabilize ground-level business, catalyze property values, and grow residential & office demand.

And instead, we seem to be moving forward with an overly-designed labyrinth that will cripple its ability to serve its most logical function for decades to come. We'd be lucky to fit a food truck into the new design, and instead of clear sightlines for safety and trust, we're kindly building in 40 new hiding places for the deranged bums.



I love progress, and we're all hungry for it to happen quickly.

But a part of me thinks that we need to hit the brakes for two or three years years of nearly everything that isn't already committed while we figure out what the big picture should look like, both from a development and from a transportation perspective.

Subsidizing development with no underlying rhyme or reason beyond hitting arbitrary resident goals isn't a plan.

We need a block by block plan, with the end clearly in mind, that we can prioritize investment against. 

[thelakelander]

All the festival marketplaces eventually closed except Miami's Bayside. Church Street Station in Orlando is mostly vacant now and Tampa's Harbourplace is a part of a hotel now. Jax, while dumb, was the only to demolish prematurely.

ummm - did you mean just in Florida? Weren't you just at Faneuil Hall in Boston? And South Street Seaport in NYC was rebuilt and reimagined, but still going

I was referring to Florida but yes, the festival marketplaces were everywhere. Last week, I skipped eating at Faneuil Hall to get oysters at the Union Oyster House a block away. They were celebrating their 200th year in business.

As for Faneuil Hall, it was basically a food hall. Something we could have easily done with the Landing.

[thelakelander]

Fully agree on the Landing. To me, the loss was less about losing a "mall" or a festival marketplace - though we did tell more businesses to pack up shop when we closed the Landing that we've added to all of downtown in the years since.

Instead, the loss was even more about losing that center of gravity for the city. For decades, when something big was happening, the Landing was understood to be ground zero. When Jacksonville won the Jags, thousands of people organically flocked to the Landing to celebrate. When Georgia-Florida took place, that was where you went. Tree lighting. Boat parade. Olympic Torch. Political speeches. Every piece of travel and marketing literature leading up to Super Bowl XXXIX centered on the Landing.

We had that center of gravity through the 1970s with Hemming Park. We had it with the Landing.

Yes, in this sense, the Landing, its horseshoe shape and orange roof, was an iconic downtown landmark and foot traffic generator. Honestly, I think the center of gravity is likely to shift north towards Pearl Square in the future. The linear riverfront parks aren't packed enough with a diverse mix of uses to create a critical mass style focal point.

I've tried to stay positive on Riverfront Plaza because so much work has gone into it, and because it's a minor miracle it was funded and will be completed on time, but to me, it's a colossal miss versus the potential that existed for that space. Too awkward with too little flexible space to be that Town Square. No real vision for how it all comes together, or how it is programmed throughout the year. The children's playground is beautiful, but beyond that, it's just nondescript parcels of unshaded green space.

I washed my hands of the Landing site once demolition happened. I said then that it was a generational screw up and that we'd eventually spend hundreds of millions on a product that would attract less people. We're living that reality but it is what it is. I've been there a handful of times since Phase 1 opened.

The playground is nice (Kids Kampus was better) but my kids are grown now. My youngest recently graduated college and is more interested in Pearl Square and renting an apartment there than Riverfront Plaza. When my boys were younger, we'd eat and attend events at the Landing on a consistent basis.

But a part of me thinks that we need to hit the brakes for two or three years years of nearly everything that isn't already committed while we figure out what the big picture should look like, both from a development and from a transportation perspective.

Subsidizing development with no underlying rhyme or reason beyond hitting arbitrary resident goals isn't a plan.

We need a block by block plan, with the end clearly in mind, that we can prioritize investment against. 

I think its okay to support private development projects but I also agree that we should put the breaks on some major public initiatives until a real community vision and plan can be done. We've blown billions at this point on things that don't align. JTA continuing to make siloed transit decisions that don't align with downtown development, local land use policies and neighborhood vision plans is a great example of why breaks should be applied.

[Charles Hunter]

Posted by thelakelander
 - Today at 06:51:47 AM
Haha, I don't get the dinosaur

lake, meet Rex:


Rex used to live in a Goony Golf course on Beach Boulevard. When it went out of business, a shopping center was built on the site, but the developer saved Rex. It's at 10150 Beach Blvd,  about a half-mile east of Southside Boulevard, on the south side of Beach

https://thecoastal.com/featured/giant-orange-dinosaur-beach-blvd/

[thelakelander]

I've passed Rex on Beach over the years. Coming from failed mid-century road side attraction and theme park riddles Central Florida, I'm still trying to understand the infatuation with it.

[Ken_FSU]

I'd love to see Rex, or even better a larger reimagining of Rex, along the river in the new park space fronting MOSH 2.0.

I do agree with you though, Ennis. I think we've destroyed or suppressed so much of our heritage, history, and shared culture as a city that we have to cling to attractions like a Red dinosaur as "identity," versus things that carry more real civic meaning.