Downtown Development Update: What's rising, what's delayed

Started by thelakelander, September 29, 2023, 07:54:27 AM

Jax_Developer

Ironically, another military/logistics hub. Just a brief look at the two... they have a lot of similarities. Their biggest local company being Norfolk Southern lol.


Nmhatt

Quote from: Steve on August 17, 2026, 08:33:15 AMLooks like Becovic just bought 11 East and the Carling:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2026/aug/16/vestcor-confirms-downtown-sale-of-11-east-and-the-carling-to-becovic/

What is the general confidence level in Becovic? I was looking at their portfolio earlier, and it really doesn't seem like they have much prior experience with historic buildings or high-rises, for that matter. It is somewhat concerning to me that an increasing number of our notable historic buildings are being acquired by them despite the lack of an obvious track record of success with this type of work.

I am willing to admit my ignorance regarding the company, and I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you—particularly those who may have more knowledge of Becovic—think about the situation.

Joey Mackey

I believe the Becovic Group is working with Avant Construction. Avant Construction has done a lot of historic redevelopment projects in downtown, including the Greenleaf & Crosby building and the Federal Reserve building. I'd say they have the right experience, I just hope they have the right amount of money.

Aristocles

I'm getting frustrated and even angry. I sense some people nailing two pieces of wood together so they can crucify Gateway Jax on it. There are news stories about how "good an investment for the taxpayers" the project will be. They're bringing up all kinds of nonsense about "time value of money" and "property values aren't going to increase as much as Bryan Moll anticipates".
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/buyer-beware-or-good-deal-new-questions-emerge-over-publix-anchored-pearl-square-development/ITECYN3GNJBCVK7I6PON3JE7X4/
This is a bogus analysis. Gateway Jax will cause downtown property values to skyrocket and increase the city's tax base ridiculously - if, of course, it's allowed to be built. There's no way Gateway Jax would've gotten the private sector financing for it if it wasn't a good project. As for the government funding component, all similar projects not just in Jacksonville but in cities everywhere use the same thing. It's just being used as an excuse to kill this project because it's a good one.
I also predicted - somewhat facetiously - that Rory Diamond would oppose Gateway Jax. Well now it looks like I was right, he has. 
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/well-be-choosing-between-kids-programs-giving-money-publix-push-back-28m-incentive/4ICUJA7OTJHGJKJOO

Anyone want to know why Jacksonville is really the city of renderings? Because it seems like renderings are all anyone allows around here. They do a hatchet job on the projects when someone tries to make them reality.
If the naysayers kill Gateway Jax, this city will suck as a second rate town for eternity.
You want a good Jacksonville? Don't be envy ridden. This is a good project. Let it get built. Put away the hatchet.

jcjohnpaint

Just watched it. It tells a fraction of the story. Really bad reporting. I would also give incentives to a developer who is finally making things happen vs. the CIA, which as it stands seems to be your typical (pie in sky) development that never materializes. Pull the CIA off the hotel and find some of the many empty spaces downtown, Lavilla, etc. It shows how double-faced council can be, especially when it is a pet project.

fsu813

^ more seemingly "pie in the sky" proposed projects are on the way. Everything is possible with gap funding/incentives.

jcjohnpaint

Probably not long until the next Kahn asks after they wrap up the hotel. We will see where council stands.

Aristocles

#428
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on August 20, 2026, 09:04:31 AMProbably not long until the next Kahn asks after they wrap up the hotel. We will see where council stands.

Ah, you mention Kahn. As in Shad?
I have a theory about what's going on. I don't want to wrongly implicate anyone who is innocent, so I'll stand corrected if need be. However, I think Shad Khan doesn't like Gateway Jax because it's not in his neck of the woods. He wants the action not in NoDo but in Lot J near the stadium. Okay, if anyone were him, who wouldn't? The problem though is he's probably falling for a fallacy, that it's a zero sum game, it's either Gateway Jax or Lot J. Jax isn't big enough for both.
Not true. In fact, Kahn and Lot J would benefit tremendously if Gateway Jax were built. What Gateway Jax would do is make downtown a more valuable location, maybe to the point that it would become much more expensive. If developers were looking at that point for a cheaper site that would pencil out, that's when Lot J - cheaper because it's out several blocks from the center of the action - becomes attractive. That's when Shad will make the big bucks from Lot J. But kill the downtown now and Lot J never amounts to anything. I could see Shad making this mistake, even pretty innocently. After all, if Donald Trump, a developer extraordinaire for 40+ years, could be fool enough to think he'll lower home prices by making renting single family homes illegal, Shad could fall for the zero sum game error.
As for the CIA, I think it's a good project. But it could end up on the chopping block too. Don't let Saul Alinsky fool you into thinking, when the bad guys isolate their target, they don't have new ones in mind once they take out the current one.
There is definitely a pattern. There were recently stories about how Gateway Jax "won't have housing for the whole community", and then there was the needless flap over the property swap, thank you councilman Salem. This is just the latest.
I have some suspicions over who's the top dog on all this. I've heard there are some people at UNF who are very opposed to gentrification, and I suspect they're throwing sand in the gears here, getting Salem, Diamond, Truth in Accounting, etc. and maybe even Shad, all riled up to kill Gateway Jax. I don't think they'll be successful, because Gateway Jax's underwriters probably anticipated this stuff and still lent the money.

Jones518

#429
I say this all the time, Jacksonville can't be great because the residents don't want it to be great.

When you have folks like Rory Diamond, Ron Salem, etc in leadership......we constantly shoot ourselves in the foot.


Then you have people like Ron Armstrong who are gaining traction for the mayoral's race by spreading lies and misinformation about downtown development.


It's just a constant political battle which is why downtown Jacksonville continues to lack....

When everyone can get on the same page about downtown, things will come together cohesively



Quote from: Aristocles on August 19, 2026, 10:06:49 PMAnyone want to know why Jacksonville is really the city of renderings? Because it seems like renderings are all anyone allows around here. They do a hatchet job on the projects when someone tries to make them reality.
If the naysayers kill Gateway Jax, this city will suck as a second rate town for eternity.
You want a good Jacksonville? Don't be envy ridden. This is a good project. Let it get built. Put away the hatchet.

jcjohnpaint

^Arist
I don't know if it is that layered. I just don't think they know how cities function. They also lack creativity, taking all queues from Trump and DeSantis. Most just take these positions to climb the MAGA rainbow.

Tacachale

Quote from: Jones518 on August 20, 2026, 07:54:59 PMI say this all the time, Jacksonville can't be great because the residents don't want it to be great.

When you have folks like Rory Diamond, Ron Salem, etc in leadership......we constantly shoot ourselves in the foot.


Then you have people like Ron Armstrong who are gaining traction for the mayoral's race by spreading lies and misinformation about downtown development.


It's just a constant political battle which is why downtown Jacksonville continues to lack....

When everyone can get on the same page about downtown, things will come together cohesively



Quote from: Aristocles on August 19, 2026, 10:06:49 PMAnyone want to know why Jacksonville is really the city of renderings? Because it seems like renderings are all anyone allows around here. They do a hatchet job on the projects when someone tries to make them reality.
If the naysayers kill Gateway Jax, this city will suck as a second rate town for eternity.
You want a good Jacksonville? Don't be envy ridden. This is a good project. Let it get built. Put away the hatchet.

There are enough people fighting for progress that it is attainable. All it takes is breaking the fever and staying at it rather than just calling it a day. I haven't been this optimistic in years!
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

jaxlongtimer

I don't discount conspiracies when it comes to decisions by our City government starting with certain City council members and a former mayor who obviously work for themselves and pay-to-play friends, not the citizens of Jacksonville.

That said, this is compounded by the lack of a long term, community developed, long range plan for Downtown and the consistent adherence to the plan over long periods of time.  The lack of a "best practice" planning process supports ping pong decisions about the "projects of the day" and gives cover to those elected officials above to promote what benefits them the most.  Meanwhile, increasingly scarce public dollars are invested inconsistently, and perhaps unfairly and/or unnecessarily, without a coherent plan and prioritization/ranking ROI process for both infrastructure and developer driven projects.

And, people wonder why government involvement often makes for poor outcomes in such cases.


thelakelander

Here we go again. DT is hemorrhaging office workers to the burbs and hybrid employment opportunities. For anyone interested in seeing downtown revitalization happen, there are some industries and institutional anchors we have to ensure don't leave as the market continues to change. Local government and public sector entities are one of those institutional anchors we can control at the local level. But when our own local entities fly the coup, its foolish the fault the private sector for doing the same thing.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali