Commuter Rail's Return?

[Tacachale]

The Bold City or the The City of Studies. I've said this before to you Lake but your hard drive is probably somewhat sad to look when you piece it all together lol.

Lake's hard drive is an incredibly valuable resource for our fair city

[thelakelander]

The Bold City or the The City of Studies. I've said this before to you Lake but your hard drive is probably somewhat sad to look when you piece it all together lol.

The old hard drive has turned me into a realist when it comes to downtown revitalization and transit talk in this town. I can smell BS a hundred miles away with some of the projects being pushed around now, like the U2C. It's like the Skyway 2.0 process all over again. I wish more people would make it a priority to learn local history before attempting to come up with "innovative" solutions. We'd save taxpayers hundreds of millions and decades of lost time, in the process.

[thelakelander]

What's the point of a TOD study for a rail system that doesn't exist and likely never will? Last time I checked, we an Amtrak Station (despite not being in the best location) and eight Skyway stations. Figure out how to do real TOD around them before worrying about something that JTA doesn't have the capacity to bring to fruition. Having public meetings to show people what can be built on Walmart's property, without engaging Walmart, is a waste of everyone's time.

[thelakelander]

Some more TOD blast from the past.....





Some TOD babble from 16 years ago. Some apartments did eventually get built. However, the T in TOD became A, as in Automobile oriented development.

[iMarvin]

Yeah I just don't get the point of this study. It'd be different if JTA/the city were actually pledging money to this instead of whatever the U2C is, but that's not the case...

[marcuscnelson]

As I said last year, it's unclear what the value of these studies are other than to say that commuter rail is being studied. It's clear from JTA's actions that this is not something they are taking seriously. There are things you do if you are seriously working to develop a rail system, and JTA is not doing those things, because instead they are spending hundreds of millions on the complete opposite of a rail system. Their decision three years ago to ask for $3.4 million for rail studies from the gas tax and one hundred eleven times that for the U2C makes their priorities clear.

As Lake says, these are not properties JTA owns, and even the study notes that they would all require rezoning to do anything with, which JTA has no power to enact. The report also notes some of the issues associated with the complete lack of a timeline for implementation: the developer of the King Street site moving forward with their own plans, which meant no real study was conducted there; and the shopping center development at Race Track Road forcing them to relocate a proposed station to CR210 (which also has future development plans, including proposals to eliminate the grade crossing there).

So yeah, JTA gave a million dollars (plus local match) to Nat Ford's wife's company to spit out a 500 page study that they can point to as proof that they are studying commuter rail. And that's all passenger rail will keep being until someone important decides to care otherwise.

[jcjohnpaint]

I've been following this site since 2010. Every local politician should be forced to read all articles on here, including the old MJ site. Given Deegan's sensibility, I thinks she is paying attention to what is on here. As for JTA, Nat Ford has to go before any progress on anything is going to happen? Do we get him until he retires?

[thelakelander]

This is the one area of the TOD report that can probably be utilized since the city is interested in LaVilla and bringing rail back to the old terminal.

EDIT: The actual train station is labeled as a food hall and market. There's a shared use path running adjacent to the rail ROW and the new commuter rail station is a block west of the old terminal. Need a lot more coordination with stuff like this.





One question I do have about it is that they didn't acknowledge the previous 2004 Amtrak plan, the 2019 CRISI grant track improvement plans, the 2019 DIA LaVilla Neighborhood Development Strategy Plan and future consideration for Brightline's needs.

Article on CRISI grant, which will include 7 miles of track infrastructure improvements:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2019/06/07/feds-award-grant-to-ease-san-marco-train-delays/4960080007/

Amtrak 2008

[Captain Zissou]

As for JTA, Nat Ford has to go before any progress on anything is going to happen? Do we get him until he retires?

The man is getting paid to do almost nothing.  I doubt he leaves without being kicked out.

[Des]

Maybe we can write a letter to Mayor Deegan along with a petition to prioritize the First Coast Commuter Rail over the U2C program. It might make sense strategically to not be outright against the U2C but employ a softer approach to suggest that the FCCR might serve more people and promote growth, etc. which may serve as a catalyst for future light rail expansion.

Here's an example that I pulled from ChatGPT that could serve as a baseline; I could revise it but I'm not really sure how effective it would be:
(I wanted to have it as a spoiler, but I don't know how to do that.)

[/size]
Prioritizing First Coast Commuter Rail as a Concept Project: A Catalyst for Future Light Rail Projects in Jacksonville

Jacksonville, FL, is at a pivotal juncture in its transportation landscape, featuring initiatives like the U2C autonomous vehicle project and the established Skyway monorail system. Amidst these endeavors, the concept of the First Coast Commuter Rail emerges as a compelling alternative that warrants prioritization as a proof of concept and a catalyst for future light rail projects in the city.

Jacksonville's commitment to transportation innovation is evident through various initiatives, including the U2C autonomous vehicle project and the longstanding Skyway monorail system. However, a critical examination reveals the potential of the First Coast Commuter Rail as a transformative solution, albeit in its conceptual stage, that addresses key challenges while also paving the way for future light rail developments.

Despite the estimated $400 million cost of the U2C autonomous vehicle project, the First Coast Commuter Rail holds promise in enhancing regional connectivity at a potentially lower cost. Serving an estimated 52,000 commuters, with expectations of growth, the commuter rail offers a cost-effective and scalable solution compared to the substantial investment required for autonomous vehicles.

Even as a concept project, the First Coast Commuter Rail enjoys considerable community support and public trust, rooted in the potential benefits it offers in terms of reliability, safety, and environmental sustainability. Building upon this existing support fosters a positive perception of public transit, encouraging greater ridership and laying the groundwork for future light rail projects that can further enhance connectivity and accessibility.

Commuter rail systems like the envisioned First Coast Commuter Rail contribute significantly to environmental sustainability by promoting mass transit use and reducing individual vehicle emissions. Although in the conceptual stage, the scalability of rail-based solutions makes them a cost-effective and sustainable option for long-term transit planning. This scalability extends to future light rail projects, leveraging the infrastructure and experience gained from the commuter rail concept.

Prioritizing the First Coast Commuter Rail as a concept project serves as a catalyst for future light rail developments in Jacksonville. The successful implementation and operation of the commuter rail can demonstrate the feasibility and benefits of rail-based transit, garnering support for expanding light rail networks to serve additional corridors, neighborhoods, and commuter routes within the city.

In conclusion, the concept of the First Coast Commuter Rail emerges as a strategic priority and catalyst for future light rail projects in Jacksonville. By prioritizing it as a proof of concept and leveraging its potential benefits in enhancing regional connectivity, fostering community support, and promoting environmental sustainability, the city can lay the groundwork for a comprehensive and efficient transit network that includes both commuter rail and light rail solutions.

While innovation remains crucial, strategic decision-making should prioritize solutions with demonstrated success and tangible benefits. The First Coast Commuter Rail, even in its conceptual stage, represents a transformative opportunity to elevate Jacksonville's transportation system and pave the way for a future of interconnected and sustainable transit options for its residents and visitors.

[Jax_Developer]

The Bold City or the The City of Studies. I've said this before to you Lake but your hard drive is probably somewhat sad to look when you piece it all together lol.

Lake's hard drive is an incredibly valuable resource for our fair city

The Bold City or the The City of Studies. I've said this before to you Lake but your hard drive is probably somewhat sad to look when you piece it all together lol.

The old hard drive has turned me into a realist when it comes to downtown revitalization and transit talk in this town. I can smell BS a hundred miles away with some of the projects being pushed around now, like the U2C. It's like the Skyway 2.0 process all over again. I wish more people would make it a priority to learn local history before attempting to come up with "innovative" solutions. We'd save taxpayers hundreds of millions and decades of lost time, in the process.

I hope we as a city can learn from the resources already put together in the past for something better in the future. JTA needs a strong leader.

[marcuscnelson]

Here we might go again.

Just opened a virtual live stream of today's JTA board workshop and meeting (still ongoing) and caught the end of what appears to be an 11-slide presentation on a Jacobs-Deloitte study of "First Coast Regional Rail Service". I was late so couldn't catch what exactly they discussed, but I did hear Nat Ford remarking that this would be perhaps a decade away, presumably preferring the discussion that followed about Phase III U2C expansion studies.

I would certainly like to see what exactly was proposed. I suspect this probably focused on Downtown to St. Augustine as we've seen before, but interesting to have a newer study of it.

[Charles Hunter]

Maybe they will include the slide deck when they post the meeting minutes. It doesn't appear they post full agenda packages prior to the meeting.

[thelakelander]

Here we might go again.

Just opened a virtual live stream of today's JTA board workshop and meeting (still ongoing) and caught the end of what appears to be an 11-slide presentation on a Jacobs-Deloitte study of "First Coast Regional Rail Service". I was late so couldn't catch what exactly they discussed, but I did hear Nat Ford remarking that this would be perhaps a decade away, presumably preferring the discussion that followed about Phase III U2C expansion studies.

I would certainly like to see what exactly was proposed. I suspect this probably focused on Downtown to St. Augustine as we've seen before, but interesting to have a newer study of it.

We've been talkin for 20 years. We're no closer to anything now than we were in 2005 related to commuter rail....other than pissing the S-Line ROW away with a shared use path.

[Jankelope]

Does UF owning the Prime Osborne preclude us from getting commuter rail in that spot downtown again? It would be a real shame if so.

I have kind of resigned myself to the fact that we just are not going to get commuter rail. I think things like Emerald Trail are the only "transit oriented" development that has enough steam and funding to actually happen.