COJ and UF take first major step towards LaVilla campus

[jcjohnpaint]

What is the issue with Hyatt?

[jaxlongtimer]

I would be curious what the justification would be for considering any other space for convention.

See my post below made prior to yours why another space might be considered.  Don't have to agree, but a case could be made for other locations.

I know this was brought up before and dissed here, but I still think a convention center amidst the stadiums/arena complex is a viable option.  Lots of existing parking that could be shared and the ability to co-host events with the stadiums/arena.  Add now a hotel with the Four Seasons (albeit not the size of the Hyatt).  However, with Khan owning the fairgrounds (will he pitch that as a convention site?!) and its potential to host hotels plus his dream still of an entertainment complex, the area has much to offer over the next few years.  Nearby will also be riverfront parks, the Navy ship and MOSH (maybe) that also could support event break-outs.  Access for long service trucks will also be superior.  Potential flood hazards will likely be less too.

P.S. The Hyatt can't even handle parking for its own events.  I don't see them able to accommodate anything more. Maybe JTA could use U2C (not!) to shuttle patrons to the sports complex and everyone is happy  .

What is the issue with Hyatt?

The Hyatt originally opened as the Adams Mark Hotel and was built at the time for one main reason only:  It was needed for Jax to get a Super Bowl given it has almost 1,000 rooms.  Once the Super Bowl was over, it went bankrupt, not once, but at least twice, including once as the Hyatt, as I recall.  Way oversized for Downtown Jax most of the year.  It was also built on the cheap given its brutal architecture.  The Hyatt has say on an adjacent parcel so that impacts what happens around it.  Others can fill in the issues there.  Another example of Jax chasing pots of gold at the end of rainbows.  Its ace in the hole is, other than the existing convention center, Jax really doesn't have many indoor options, if any, that can accommodate large crowds for events serving food to large numbers of people (500 to 2,000).

[jcjohnpaint]

Ok, so kind of understood the issue. Why wouldn't they want a convention center built in and around the structure? It would only help the Hyatt, right? From what I remember, this caused the last CC proposal to fall apart?

[marcuscnelson]

I know this was brought up before and dissed here, but I still think a convention center amidst the stadiums/arena complex is a viable option.  Lots of existing parking that could be shared and the ability to co-host events with the stadiums/arena.  Add now a hotel with the Four Seasons (albeit not the size of the Hyatt).  However, with Khan owning the fairgrounds (will he pitch that as a convention site?!) and its potential to host hotels plus his dream still of an entertainment complex, the area has much to offer over the next few years.  Nearby will also be riverfront parks, the Navy ship and MOSH (maybe) that also could support event break-outs.  Access for long service trucks will also be superior.  Potential flood hazards will likely be less too.

P.S. The Hyatt can't even handle parking for its own events.  I don't see them able to accommodate anything more. Maybe JTA could use U2C (not!) to shuttle patrons to the sports complex and everyone is happy  .

I suppose this is a case, but it seems rather speculative compared to the alternative.

The existing parking is a point, although much of that is speculated to be intended for future use anyway, like whatever Lot J might maybe one day come back as. Like you already note, the Four Seasons is not a convention-focused hotel, so you'd need to build another standard convention hotel anyway (think several generations ago Shipyards proposals included this, but current plans don't reflect that). We can't do much about whether or not Shad Khan might at some point in the future maybe decide to propose the Fairgrounds site be used for a convention center, and even if he did that'd still mean paying incentives to build more, new hotels in addition to the actual exhibition space.

Further to your point, we already have a thousand-room hotel on the riverfront with large, available riverfront parcels that would benefit from added patronage, the inclusion of more parking, and more retail space. How many times now has this city bailed on just killing a flock of birds with one stone to chase after doing more, other speculative developments? And the city would have to find the money for whatever option they choose in addition to building a new jail, whatever other incentive packages in the future, and everything else. None of the alternatives are going to be cheaper than fixing the large hotel we already have.

[marcuscnelson]

Ok, so kind of understood the issue. Why wouldn't they want a convention center built in and around the structure? It would only help the Hyatt, right? From what I remember, this caused the last CC proposal to fall apart?

To the contrary, the last set of serious CC proposals fell apart because the city changed its mind and decided to pursue a convention center elsewhere (at the time in 2018 likely the Shipyards) instead, so they dropped that RFP and then attempted to build apartments on the site, before remembering that the Hyatt ROFR existed and having to restart the RFP, after which point the winner was unable to build anything (twice).

Hyatt would (as far as we all know) love an expanded site with convention space, the issue is the city's disinterest in building one in an effort to pursue other things.

[jcjohnpaint]

Tried to find them on here, but must have been on Metro Jacksonville. Studies and renderings were done if I remember correctly

[Tacachale]

^ Isn't the clock starting to tick on when UF gets around to wanting to redevelop the Prime Osborn? How many years away can such a thing afford to be before we start risking either artificially capping the new campus or going without a convention center?

We're many years from UF getting to the Prime Osborn. The initial phases will be the Interline building and the other two adjacent parcels north of Bay Street, and that all won't wrap up till 2035. We'll need to have an idea of what we're doing before then, but there's time to get there. Like I said, the Hyatt is the best bet to my mind (and the most likely right now) but the amount of things happening downtown right now means things can change pretty rapidly.

Ok, so kind of understood the issue. Why wouldn't they want a convention center built in and around the structure? It would only help the Hyatt, right? From what I remember, this caused the last CC proposal to fall apart?

To the contrary, the last set of serious CC proposals fell apart because the city changed its mind and decided to pursue a convention center elsewhere (at the time in 2018 likely the Shipyards) instead, so they dropped that RFP and then attempted to build apartments on the site, before remembering that the Hyatt ROFR existed and having to restart the RFP, after which point the winner was unable to build anything (twice).

Hyatt would (as far as we all know) love an expanded site with convention space, the issue is the city's disinterest in building one in an effort to pursue other things.

Yes, this is correct. Terrible leadership. It's impossible to overstate how far back some of these issues put us.