Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....

[jaxlongtimer]

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2025/11/13/holon-lacked-ceo-for-months-during-jax-project.html

Schlitt was appointed to the helm of Holon's leadership in May, during a critical moment for the company, as it invested heavily in Jacksonville to build its flagship U.S. manufacturing facility.

This event should not be underestimated.  A leadership vacuum creates paralysis of decision making and possibly leads to a reversal of decisions when new leadership arrives and reevaluates the old leadership legacy.  Unless JTA and Jax have a deal with the parent partners (questionable), Holon's "commitment" could be at risk. 

I am still trying to understand how Holon is solving the riddle of a truly autonomous vehicle when no one but Waymo has accomplished it to date.  If they had a solution, they would be as famous as Waymo.  Not seeing that.

[marcuscnelson]

Waymo announcing today that they are expanding autonomous rideshare operations to several cities in Texas and Florida.

https://waymo.com/blog/2025/18/safe-routine-ready-autonomous-driving-in-new-cities

They begin testing today in Miami, and will soon expand to Orlando, with paying rides next year. This comes soon after opening the ability for their vehicles to utilize highways in addition to city streets.

These developments continue to beg the question of what value JTA's use of taxpayer dollars in this arena brings to the table. At a time when those hundreds of millions of dollars could have gone to developing proven fixed guideway transit with the ability to move more people at greater economy of scale without increasing traffic, in the way the public sector is uniquely capable, JTA decided instead to poorly imitate the private sector with much worse performance at greater cost. Why?

[fsu813]

Waymo announcing today that they are expanding autonomous rideshare operations to several cities in Texas and Florida.

https://waymo.com/blog/2025/18/safe-routine-ready-autonomous-driving-in-new-cities

They begin testing today in Miami, and will soon expand to Orlando, with paying rides next year. This comes soon after opening the ability for their vehicles to utilize highways in addition to city streets.

These developments continue to beg the question of what value JTA's use of taxpayer dollars in this arena brings to the table. At a time when those hundreds of millions of dollars could have gone to developing proven fixed guideway transit with the ability to move more people at greater economy of scale without increasing traffic, in the way the public sector is uniquely capable, JTA decided instead to poorly imitate the private sector with much worse performance at greater cost. Why?

This may be a stupid question, but would Waymo need permission from COJ to expand into this market? I would assume yes.

[jaxjags]

My wife and were in San Francisco a month ago for vacation. In the Warf, Columbus Ave, Chinatown areas about 10% of the traffic was Waymo. I propose we bring Waymo to "greater DT" area and JTA subsidize the costs. Probably get a lot of rides for .5 million $ and will impress the 4 Seasons customers.

[Jax_Developer]

@fsu813 Yes, Waymo requires the state DOT & local government approvals to operate. Considering this just got announced for Miami & Orlando... Our local government just got put in a very interesting position!

https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/18/waymo-removes-safety-drivers-in-miami-ahead-of-2026-launch/

[jaxlongtimer]

So Miami and Orlando will, in mere months, have "cutting edge" autonomous vehicles at little or no expense, and maybe with revenue if they charge licensing fees, while we spend $400+ million wallowing in a wasteful folly with no end that will never produce a successful result. 

And, we will wait years to admit defeat while others will be thriving in this space and passing us by, all along. 

Once again, we will be a laughing stock - not some example to be held up to the world - mired in another transportation failure, avoiding, literally at all and much costs, true and tested mass transit solutions.

Oh! The craziness and stupidity of it all!

[Ken_FSU]

A total broken record, I know, but given where the technology is at, these things have no business operating in mixed travel lanes down by the stadium. Another backup this morning of vehicles coming off the Hart Bridge ramp trying to get around these dumbass vans plodding along at 10 mph with their emergency flashers on. It takes a rare breed of foolishness to invest $80 million in Bay Street Transportation only to make the travel experience worse for most people. Great job to all involved.

[Lostwave]

Another back up?  Its every day, all day. 

[Ken_FSU]

Another back up?  Its every day, all day.

[jaxjags]

The 4 Seasons and FDOT said last week they are exploring traffic calming devices on the stretch of road. I think we found one.

[jcjohnpaint]

I feel bad for the NAVI drivers.

[thelakelander]

Autonomous NAVI transportation system could face dead end with future city funding pulled

The Jacksonville City Council could soon consider whether to withhold city funding for the final two stages of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's autonomous vehicle system, potentially leaving JTA scrambling for money to finish the project after fewer than 4 miles of development.

Council member Rory Diamond says he's preparing legislation that would cut off city funding for phases two and three of the JTA's Ultimate Urban Circulator, or U2C, which launched in June with the start of service aboard the $65 million Neighborhood Autonomous Vehicle Innovation system.

Prompted by ridership numbers that Council member Ron Salem described as "disappointing," Diamond suggests the money for the U2C would be better spent improving streets and other existing transportation infrastructure than on technology that, in his view, is experimental and subject to quickly being made obsolete by advancements in autonomous vehicle technology.

Diamond suggested diverting some city funds to purchase credits for companies like Uber and Waymo to provide rides for Jacksonville residents.

Ford told the DOGE committee it was unfair to base opinions about the long-term prospects of the U2C based on early ridership figures.

He said he and his leadership staff were confident that the system would meet the projection of 280 riders per day, but said the timing will be determined by how quickly the city's Downtown revitalization effort progresses.

Ford said use of the U2C will be buoyed by completion of Downtown projects such as the Four Seasons Hotel & Residences, the Rise: Doro apartment building, the new Northbank Museum of Science and History and the University of Florida graduate campus.

"Those developments are going to lead to the ridership that we were projecting," he said.

In addition, he said NAVI was developed at a fraction of the cost of a streetcar or light-rail system. Those would cost $500 million to $1 billion per mile, he told the DOGE committee.

Lol, this is some serious gaslighting. Anything costing anywhere close to $500 million to $1 billion per mile is being constructed as a subway, tunneling through a mountain or being bridged over a large body of water. I hope political leaders are really doing their homework on this and not taking quotes like this as face value.

Mayor Donna Deegan, one of the UTC's most vocal supporters, has said there's room in Jacksonville for both the U2C and other transportation systems.

"The people who are the biggest naysayers of this are the ones who never wanted to consider autonomous vehicles in the first place and wanted light rail to the exclusion of everything else," Deegan said on the WJCT Public Media talk show "First Coast Connect."

I hope the mayor does her homework on this one too. This ain't about autonomous vehicles vs. LRT. This is simply a project that does not make sense for the investment, projected ridership and its limited ability to actually serve downtown's and Jax's public transit needs.

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2025/nov/21/navi-could-face-dead-end-with-future-city-funding-pulled/

[Steve]

When was the last time Peluso and Diamond were aligned on an issue?

[Joey Mackey]

I did some internet research into HOLON. They have two cities signed up to use their autonomous shuttles, us and Hamburg, Germany. I did a quick jaunt over to Hamburg's website, and they have an entity called Hochbann, which appears to be Hamburg's local transportation authority. Hochbann also has their own website. It has some information about HOLON and autonomous shuttles. The manner in which Hochbann presents their autonomous vehicle project is striking compared to how JTA presents the same project. Here is an example:

Hamburg is taking the next step towards the mobility transition. With autonomous shuttles as a supplement to traditional public transport, we are trialling a particularly flexible and convenient service. The ALIKE project will bring autonomous mobility to life in Hamburg. The first autonomous shuttles will be travelling on Hamburg's streets in a test operation as early as mid-2025. The aim of the project is to learn exactly how autonomous vehicles can improve local public transport - so that we can then expand the public transport services in our city in the long term. https://www.hochbahn.de/en/projects/autonomous-bus-transport/autonomous-on-demand-shuttles

First, Hochbann acknowledges that this is an experiment. As compared to JTA, who presents the U2C as a solution. Also, Hochbann acknowledges that the goal for autonomous vehicles is to supplement its public transportation system. As compared to JTA, who presents the U2C as a standalone, self-supported public transportation system. Like LakeLander has said before, the U2C is nothing more than a tech-start up experiment, and for some asinine reason, some of our city leaders think that this tech-start up experiment should be funded by local taxpayers at a cost of 400 million dollars. For what it is worth, the project in Hamburg is being supported by their federal government to the tune of 26 million euros.

Also, if you want a good laugh, follow the link above and you will see that the area of coverage for the autonomous vehicles to operate in for Hamburg is a dynamic 37 km zone that covers every road in the city center (kind of like how the scooters operate here). As compared to JTA, who even if fully developed, can only imagine the U2C operating on fixed travel lines.

We need to kill this experimental project, like yesterday.

[thelakelander]

Another logical Skyway solution taking place in Orlando......at a much cheaper cost than NAVI. Basically keep the APM technology for the Skyway and keep the NAVI dreams completely seperate as an expirement that could one day supplement the traditional public transit network!

Orlando airport to replace four terminal link trams in major overhaul

The Orlando International Airport is embarking upon a $253 million project to replace four aging trams that connect terminals A and B with airline gates.

Airport officials expect minimal disruptions during the overhaul that starts Dec. 3 and should last two years.

Most passengers will find the project means only a few minutes added to journeys during normal operations, they said. But from time to time, travelers may need to take a shuttle bus, particularly if their flight arrives between 11 p.m. and 4 a.m. Travelers using rental car or ground transportation services should allow an additional 30 minutes in their pickup planning, airport officials added.

Southwest passengers will see the first effects with one of the two trams connecting many of the airline's gates to the main terminals soon taken out of service.

The trams being replaced have traveled more than 5 million miles, a distance equivalent to 200 trips around the Earth. The oldest tram dates to 2000.

"These have reached their useful life," said Marquez Griffin, senior vice president of operations for the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, which oversees the Orlando airport. "It is time for us to replace them — get us something newer, something more modern ... something that will provide a better customer experience."

The new trams, manufactured by Mitsubishi, can accommodate up to 240 passengers. They are similar to those that were placed into operation in 2017 for Gates 1-59.

The project, which has a target completion date of October 2027, also includes the replacement of the trams' supporting infrastructure, operating systems, power distribution equipment, vehicle controls, communication systems and platform screen doors.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2025/11/21/orlando-airport-to-replace-four-terminal-link-trams-in-major-overhaul/?utm_email=A44504A49461D54654F9B593FB&lctg=A44504A49461D54654F9B593FB&g2i_eui=5QLTK1xLbkF4c6ZK9pD7eSrHdfou2aZ51LwsS2J9Rk8%3d&g2i_source=newsletter&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2f2025%2f11%2f21%2forlando-airport-to-replace-four-terminal-link-trams-in-major-overhaul%2f&utm_campaign=trib-orlando_sentinel-breaking_news-nl&utm_content=alert