Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....

[thelakelander]

^That was pretty bad for JTA. It will be worse if we get to 2025 and those Ford vans show up on the scene at a cost approching $70 million. Running a city bus or PCT trolley (which they used to do back in the day) through downtown would be more practical and serve more transit users.

[Charles Hunter]

This quote is interesting, in a few ways

A video presentation at the community meetings said the initial phase of the project, which will operate on and around Bay Street, will provide 14 shuttles on a 3-mile route with 12 stops. Plans call for the shuttles to run every seven minutes.

1. "14 shuttles" The design of the AV Garage approved by the DDRB shows covered parking for 12 AVs. Maybe the other two will be in the garage (repair) space.
2. He can't mean all 14 shuttles will be in service at the same time. You wouldn't put your entire fleet in service. Assuming an average speed of 9 or 10 mph, it only takes 3 vans to achieve 7-minute headways on a three-mile loop.
3. At 9 mph, each van can make 3 loops/hour, with 3 vans, that's 9 loops/hour, or 9 trips from downtown to the stadium per hour. Using 15-passenger vans, that's 135 passengers per hour. But, since the vans have to be ADA accessible, maybe only 10 passengers, for 90 passengers delivered per hour.  What is the passenger capacity of the "ultimate" AVs? I think they are even smaller.
4. Will the interim Ford vans be gasoline or electric? If gasoline, they will have to go to the main bus garage on Myrtle Avenue (or the new Daily's station next door) to refuel.

[Ken_FSU]

3. At 9 mph, each van can make 3 loops/hour, with 3 vans, that's 9 loops/hour, or 9 trips from downtown to the stadium per hour. Using 15-passenger vans, that's 135 passengers per hour. But, since the vans have to be ADA accessible, maybe only 10 passengers, for 90 passengers delivered per hour.

Don't forget the 7-minute headways too.

Capacity calculations are why everyone at JTA who refers to this as a "mass transit" solution must be high on fentanyl. Insane to the point of lunacy that a $400 million+ system that can transport fewer passengers than a pair of $400k electric buses ever made it past the drawing board.

It's a half billion replacement for the $6,500 Go Tuk'n shuttles that there's no real demand for to begin with.

Sheer, unadulterated insanity.

[jaxlongtimer]

Maybe "Ford" vans are named after Nat Ford, not Ford Motor Company ?  It is poetic justice that they will be using "Ford" vans.  The name will forever be associated in more ways than one with this fiasco.

[thelakelander]

The Skyway had 3-minute headways 20 years ago. So the solution is a significantly slower vehicle that carries significantly less riders, with longer headways....but for two times the cost? It's time to take this half-baked project out back and put it to sleep.

[Jax_Developer]

The lack of any accountability is hilarious. We have a department head that has virtually zero checks & balances. Pretty much everyone knows this is a dumpster fire. Council, FDOT, Mayor's Office... there's no secret that there is virtually zero political support for this. Problem is that we have set up JTA to make the few available checks & balances unobtainable. It's amazing how a few individuals (Nat & a few board members) are contributing to the biggest waste of funds Jacksonville has ever seen with zero care.

[Ken_FSU]

https://www.theverge.com/24157228/robotaxi-nhtsa-investigations-waymo-tesla-zoox

[Charles Hunter]

[sarcasm font]What a waste of time. NHTSA just needs to call JTA, since they are The World Leaders in Autonomous Vehicle Tech[/sarcasm font]

[thelakelander]

^Yes, the world should not worry. JTA is on it. Ford vans to the rescue.

[Charles Hunter]

The Business Journal recently posted an article on their FB page, "JTA moves ahead with plan for U2C to Jags stadium"

There are nearly 200 comments, and I did not read all of them. But of those I read, many want the existing Skyway extended to the stadium or build a streetcar line. Endorsements of the U2C were scarce (in the sample I read).

FB post: https://www.facebook.com/JBJNews/posts/pfbid02urZb77YuN1Yw628WGKrfziiisP56CPBkFydCSV9m6SVH4vD2cWD2MMyiX7oxD3hTl

[Todd_Parker]

The Business Journal recently posted an article on their FB page, "JTA moves ahead with plan for U2C to Jags stadium"

There are nearly 200 comments, and I did not read all of them. But of those I read, many want the existing Skyway extended to the stadium or build a streetcar line. Endorsements of the U2C were scarce (in the sample I read).

FB post: https://www.facebook.com/JBJNews/posts/pfbid02urZb77YuN1Yw628WGKrfziiisP56CPBkFydCSV9m6SVH4vD2cWD2MMyiX7oxD3hTl

So thousands of people will be waiting hours in line to ride/sit in 8-seater Ford vans driving 5 mph in congested gameday traffic? Seems efficient.

It's going to take a large public outcry to get this project shelved but I think the citizenry is too apathetic for anything to happen and those responsible will be long gone to face any consequences.

Looking forward to the news articles 20 years from now saying how Jacksonville repeated their Skyway mistakes with the U2C.

[Charles Hunter]

Anyone attending this? There is a JTA FB post about it today, and it is happening Now!

https://autonomousvehicleday.com/

[marcuscnelson]

JTA held a ceremonial groundbreaking today at the site of the Autonomous Innovation Center at LaVilla.

https://www.jtafla.com/media-center/press-releases/groundbreaking-of-autonomous-innovation-center-aic-as-hub-for-u2c-program-with-balfour-beatty-s-v2r-team/

Some pictures posted by Mayor Deegan:

[marcuscnelson]

Action News also reporting tonight of fears expressed by the city's former Chief of Engineering and Construction over the safety of running the shuttles on city streets.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/investigates-concerns-over-jtas-bay-street-innovation-corridor/7IZZAY23TNGKRI2BKGMC33MY7M/

[Charles Hunter]

Awaiting the JTA's response, should be interesting.