Rail funding is coming – is Jax paying attention?

[thelakelander]

1. I haven't kept track, but Daytona had a site picked out for the Amtrak Flagler Line station a decade ago. It's an old lumber mill site just south of ISB, just east of US 1 in Downtown. I worked on a FDOT study back then that used ISB as a local east/west transit spine that connected the colleges, malls, racetrack, downtown and the beach. They too are interested in Brightline for obvious reasons. Without a doubt, it will be at or near ISB if something comes to fruition in the future. It makes too much sense for them.

3./5. A line to Jax is probably only going to include Jax, St. Augustine, Palm Coast (maybe) and Daytona as potential initial stops. There's no Treasure Coast atmosphere north of Brevard. Definitely see more support in the larger, tourism oriented counties north of Cocoa for the return of intercity rail regardless of if its Brightline or Amtrak on the FEC.

7. Intercity rail and the U2C are two different animals and how they are/can be funded and operated are different as well. The Skyway (if upgraded and operated right) would be a benefit for intercity rail, not a negative. It provides local mass transit connectivity from a potential intercity rail terminal.

8. Will be interesting to see what the result of the Corridor ID work is and what the cost for a Jax intercity passenger rail service will be. Once that's out, the options for next steps will be more apparent.

[jaxlore]

Unfortunately, we don't have a good ally in the state senate, Tracie Davis said Jacksonville is not ready yet based on some unknown railway expert opinion, if that is the case what are we doing to get ready?
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/state-senator-tracie-davis-to-become-minority-leader-of-state-senate-in-2026/77-7b406339-6aed-420b-b827-cc410fbe7ba9

[Charles Hunter]

Her "railway expert" is probably someone at JTA.

Just a note about the North Florida TPO's 2050 Long Range Transportation Plan, which is in the early stages. The draft "Needs Plan" - a list of just about every conceivable transportation project between now and 2050 (to be winnowed down once project costs are balanced against expected revenues), includes 13 BRT projects and 3 Commuter Rail projects - to Orange Park, St. Augustine, and Yulee. Nothing for "bringing Amtrak back to the Prime" or intercity rail.

[thelakelander]

Easy planning solution here. The next stop is Tampa. It's always been. We're a good five years out from a train actually pulling into Tampa. So, in the meantime, we should be building the infrastructure necessary to make the terminal viable. And if it's not Brightline, this works for Amtrak too.

[Captain Zissou]

I was at north florida TPO a couple months ago and I asked if they have any rail projects in the pipeline over the next 10 years.  He immediately shut it down.  He said that they are focused on addressing traffic needs across the city first.  As if an alternative to car based commuting won't reduce traffic.

[thelakelander]

So the U2C isn't in the TPO plan? Hmmm that's not a traffic "need."

[Jax_Developer]

I don't understand why she would even make that comment. Seems as though that comment could very easily cause more harm than good.

Why not say "It would be great for Jacksonville to be served by rail, and we are working through what that takes." Instead, I feel like she just set us back. Not sure if her comments will hold any real weight but I imagine they do when speaking on one's own district.

[thelakelander]

I don't think her comments hold any weight. She's not a rail expert. She was just provided a half truth of information and shared what was said to her. Ultimately, it doesn't change a thing. Jax isn't the next area of focus (Tampa clearly is and has been for years) and we do need to upgrade the rail infrastructure around the terminal. No different than having to removal the Hart Bridge ramp to facilitate new development opportunities around the stadium. So if we need some state money for the infrastructure enhancements (which also helps move freight statewide and clear up San Marco rail congestion issues), she's likely a big supporter.

[marcuscnelson]

Just a note about the North Florida TPO's 2050 Long Range Transportation Plan, which is in the early stages. The draft "Needs Plan" - a list of just about every conceivable transportation project between now and 2050 (to be winnowed down once project costs are balanced against expected revenues), includes 13 BRT projects and 3 Commuter Rail projects - to Orange Park, St. Augustine, and Yulee. Nothing for "bringing Amtrak back to the Prime" or intercity rail.

There's no local official who has decided to put anything on the map yet, and it's not really Tracie Davis' job to be the one to do it. The transit projects are just what JTA listed back in 2019, which given the performance of the Flyer seems like a bad investment frankly. They're too slow, too infrequent (compared to what the feds were promised), don't encourage development around them, and don't seem to be what the agency wants to focus on anyway.

If Fort Pierce and Stuart can figure out how to support a Brightline station, of course the largest city in the state can. But it has to be taken seriously, which we've never really done before.

I was at north florida TPO a couple months ago and I asked if they have any rail projects in the pipeline over the next 10 years.  He immediately shut it down.  He said that they are focused on addressing traffic needs across the city first.  As if an alternative to car based commuting won't reduce traffic.

I've met Sheffield before. Smart guy, just pessimistic about our region's ability to reduce car dependence, and not willing to lead on it himself. Nat Ford has monopolized all conversations about anything that isn't highways which has left too much deference for a guy who doesn't even believe in regular buses as a solution, much less actually building rail.

Official support for rail is ultimately a political problem, particularly a local political problem. At the end of the day, people who run agencies like JTA and TPO are employees whose directives can be determined by political mandate if politicians ever decide what they actually want. That means City Council deciding it actually wants rail to reach Jacksonville and asking its appointees to the boards of JTA and TPO to reflect that intent. Miami had to decide it wanted to do the SMART Plan, Broward had to decide it wanted its PREMO Plan. Like I said in the article, you need leaders to lead for this stuff to happen.

Brightline loves hosting delegations (they had one from Tampa and the Secretary of Transportation not long ago), maybe the Chamber can try a trip down to West Palm Beach instead of London this year.

So the U2C isn't in the TPO plan? Hmmm that's not a traffic "need."

Of course it is, we've deferred all transit matters in this city to JTA and Nat Ford wants it in there so it's in there.

I would like to see what's in the new Needs Plan if it's available.

[Charles Hunter]

So the U2C isn't in the TPO plan? Hmmm that's not a traffic "need."

The U2C projects from the Draft Needs Plan

Central - Brooklyn/Five Points - 2026-2030
Central - Springfield - 2026-2030
Kings Avenue - San Marco - 2026-2030

The columns are "From" and "To" and the Projected Implementation Period

[marcuscnelson]

Speaking of funding, the Notice of Funding Opportunity (NOFO) for this year's Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvements (CRISI) Program grants came out last week. $2.4 billion in federal funding is up for grabs.

If the city were ready for it, this program would be ideal for funding projects like a new intercity (and future regional) rail station at the JRTC, infrastructure along the FEC or CSX lines like safety improvements and bridge refurbishments that would expand capacity for passenger trains, or even constructing infill stations and maintenance facilities. It doesn't seem like there's a local plan lined up that would be ready to leverage this funding, which is exactly the risk I talk about in this article. That's a lot of money that could pass us by if we let it.

[Tacachale]

One issue we've had is there are a lot of silos among orgs with stake in projects like this. I can tell you that's something we're working on.

[marcuscnelson]

That's encouraging to hear! The clock's ticking on this grant (applications due May 28) so hopefully those walls are coming down.

[Jrz Jax]

Another $1 billion in grant funding in the existing Intercity Passenger Rail Program is now available. The notice of funding opportunity has an application deadline of Dec. 16, 2024. Hopefully they can get some of this rail stimmy to pull trains off the paper and onto the tracks. (Why do I feel that it would just go to more studies and artist renderings?)

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/investing-america-biden-harris-administration-makes-more-1-billion-additional-funding

[thelakelander]

Unfortunately, to get construction money, you need to have something on paper you can build. We don't have anything outside of the U2C nonsense which still doesn't work in the manner that it's been sold to this community.