How to fit a gas station into LaVilla

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville-based convenience store chain Daily's is opening its first gas station in Jacksonville's historic Urban Core. The current designs are too suburban to be a good fit, but these examples of urban gas stations show that it can be improved dramatically with some minor changes.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/how-to-fit-a-gas-station-into-lavilla/

[heights unknown]

Why do we always (Jax) have to mimic or even consider what other cities already have? Why can't we (Jax) not come up with our own ideas, plans, etc.? Just saying. It's ok to look and just "look see" what other cities have but don't copy them; come up with our own conceptuals.

[jaxlongtimer]

I don't know if this Manhattan station is still there but I recall seeing it on a visit to NYC a few years ago.  The ultimate in efficient land use  .

[Charles Hunter]

I saw a couple similar to that in Washington, DC when we were there a couple of years ago.

[thelakelander]

Why do we always (Jax) have to mimic or even consider what other cities already have? Why can't we (Jax) not come up with our own ideas, plans, etc.? Just saying. It's ok to look and just "look see" what other cities have but don't copy them; come up with our own conceptuals.

This is what we've come with locally. We looked at other cities and placed a mural on the side of a blank wall.



Typically, the applicant coming up with this type of trash will make a bunch of claims of why their design should not be changed. 99% of them are likely bogus but appointed groups like the DDRB may not have enough expertise to challenge those claims. So, if the applicant isn't challenged or presented with applicable alternatives on the spot, the substandard project generally makes its way through with some form of approval.

[thelakelander]

I don't know if this Manhattan station is still there but I recall seeing it on a visit to NYC a few years ago.  The ultimate in efficient land use  .

This was located across the street. It was torn down during the 1990s demolition of LaVilla:

[acme54321]

Will NFPA even permit pumps being installed under a building?  I doubt it.

[thelakelander]

I can't imagine so.

[fsu813]

Anyone interested in participating in the LaVilla gas station design workshop, here you go....

DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT REVIEW BOARD
(WORKSHOP MEETING HELD VIRTUALLY & IN PERSON)
February 28, 2023
(9:00 A.M.)

Notice is hereby given that the City of Jacksonville Downtown Development Review Board (DDRB) will meet on Tuesday, February 28th, 2023, at 9:00 a.m., via Hybrid Virtual/In-Person workshop meeting.The workshop meeting noticed herein can be accessed virtually through the Zoom.US computer application or in-person at the Lynwood Roberts Room located on the first floor of City Hall and via the Zoom US computer application. The purpose of this workshop is to hear and discuss the requests for deviation from the Downtown Overlay for the Daily's Mixed-Use Project, DDRB Application 2023-003.

PHYSICAL LOCATION
Lynwood Roberts Room
First Floor of City Hall at St. James
117 West Duval Street
Jacksonville, Florida 32202

VIRTUAL LOCATION
Interested persons desiring to attend this meeting virtually can do so via Zoom (including by computer or telephone) using the following meeting access information:

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86808516459?pwd=c0kvNnFiaU9saHpxTTVHc3Q2UEVldz09

Meeting ID: 868 0851 6459
Passcode: 733477

One tap mobile
+1 (301) 715-8592 (Washington DC)
+1 (309) 205-3325 (US)

[thelakelander]

The proposed Daily's convenience store and gas station mixed-use project proposed in the LaVilla neighborhood received unanimous conceptual approval March 9 from the Downtown Development Review Board.

First Coast Energy, the Jacksonville-based parent company of Daily's, intends to build a two-story structure with a convenience store and 16 gas pumps, a neighborhood market, a full-service restaurant and a rooftop bar.

First Coast Energy paid almost $3.3 million in August 2020 for the 1.4-acre block defined by Bay, Broad, Forsyth and Jefferson streets near the Duval County Courthouse.

Brian Miller, owner of Bold City Brewery, said his company is partnering with First Coast to operate a microbrewery and the restaurant on the second floor and the rooftop bar.

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/mar/09/dailys-convenience-store-and-gas-station-in-lavilla-wins-conceptual-design-approval/

[marcuscnelson]

First Coast Energy CEO Aubrey Edge said the parking has to be designed like other convenience store/gas station projects, with easy access from the street for customers and their vehicles.

Edge also said that the LaVilla site will have less space for parking than other Daily's locations.

"We are buying 5-acre parcels with at least an acre for parking," Edge said.

...

[thelakelander]

This comment was said in the beginning of the meeting. A flaw of these meetings is that presenters aren't fact checked. The majority of the new Daily's in town are not on five acre parcels and don't take up that much space.

A big flaw of this particular workshop is that it wasn't really a workshop at all. We spent an hour listening to Daily's and Bold City Brewery tell us why they needed a big suburban gas station and restaurant in a historic Black Wall Street. There was no discussion or attempt to work through a plan to see how to fit the project into the vision of a historic African American pedestrian district.

Luckily, we were able to get an additional condition added where Daily's has to work directly with the LaVilla Heritage Trail and Gateways Committee on refining the site plan prior to final approval. No one really cares about a mural being placed on the ass of a suburban gas station. The critical element here is to get a plan and project that is right for LaVilla and downtown. To get there, the perspective of an all white development team and suburban product need to be balanced with the context, character and culture of an urban historic African American district.

To get there, the community needs to be at the decision making table as Daily's, Bold City, the DDRB and DIA staff all lack that cultural expertise.

[Captain Zissou]

Both San Marco locations are less than 2 acre sites.  There's maybe one location off 210 that's 3 acres plus, but 5 acres is absurd. Outside of the atrocious Buckees locations, which are geared toward interstate travelers, I only know of one horrendous gas station that might approach that size and that's the Gate on San Pablo.

[Jax_Developer]

1 acre can fit more than 150 parking spots pending code. I wish i could lie for approvals & get away with it like that.

[thelakelander]

Straight foolishness! I had already personally looked up every Daily's locations in town to identify year developed, parcel size, number of fueling positions, fuel truck access, number of off-street parking spaces, number of ingress/egress points and c-store square footage prior to the meeting. I'm pretty sure the Council reps, DIA staff and DDRB members working on behalf of the community and downtown had not done that level of homework.

The meeting also started off with the applicant asking the DDRB and DIA staff in attendance if they could think of one restaurant in LaVilla. No one could (we have a freaking Whole Foods going up within walking distance), so this was used as an argument to build a position of how this would be a major destination and draw for downtown, encouraging additional development to flock to the area. As a person in the crowd, all you can do is shake your head around the lack to knowledge and understanding of people controlling the future of a community they know very little about.

An hour later, when the public was allowed to speak, I offered to take everyone on a real tour of LaVilla and named at least three restaurants (one, Jenkins BBQ, has been in various areas of the community since the 1960s) that we could stop by for lunch.

I generally don't attend these day time meetings in person, as I have a living to make. However, this one was important enough for me to be there in person as the chair of the LaVilla Heritage Trail and Gateway Committee and knowing the trust that people who are normally overlooked and ignored, have in me to look out for their best interest.

My observation is that these meetings are structurally flawed from a good design and community engagement perspective. The way these meetings are set up, if DDRB members aren't skilled enough in those technical areas to immediately question some of the BS, the BS is accepted and generally used as "truths" to build momentum to justify deviations to allow for substandard design.

I will say that I was pleasantly surprised and pleased when most DDRB members stuck to their guns about the need to vet through the technical issues and getting the true LaVilla community involved directly on these site planning decisions (as opposed to getting a mural which is taken as a slap in the face to people). However, I do feel that if there was not 100% opposition during public comment to approving a substandard product, we'd quickly end up with a suburban shell station at this location.