USS Orleck may move down the river

[heights unknown]

I get the Hyatt's point. That's something that should have been worked out before the ship arrived.

Amen.

[fsu813]

My guess is the Hyatt wants it moved.  It blocks its view of the river.

You are correct.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/downtown-jacksonville-hotel-claims-significant-negative-financial-impact-uss-orleck/HA72PDFJXVDTZPIZUWNHXTEXGE/?outputType=amp

The numbers Bean throws out there seem preposterous.

[jaxlongtimer]

These quotes from today's Times Union don't bode well for this ship as predicted by most everyone but its most ardent supporters.  And, in the comments, a poster notes additional lost support because they allowed the ship to become political by hosting signs supporting politicos like Trump and DeSantis.

....The city allowed JHNSA to berth the ship in front of the Hyatt Regency under the expectation it would be only a few weeks, not months, the mayor's office Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes told committee members. The organization does not currently pay the dock fees the city would normally charge at the location, and it also cannot charge money for tours, only ask for donations.

The hotel, which Hindsley said did not receive enough advanced notice of the ship's arrival, touts riverfront views to guests and for outdoor events. By having the ship directly in front of the business, they have lost business and "would like to see the ship moved as quickly as possible," Hindsley said.

"We've been extremely accommodating, and we can't be anymore," Hughes said of the city's relationship with JHNSA. He continued and said the city has not received numbers on the financial loss to the hotel but has verified anecdotal evidence. "I have no doubt we have impacted their business." ....

.....The contract with the city specifically outlines a move to Pier 1. Advocates for the ship like William Harrell wanted to see it move elsewhere.

"I consider Pier 1 a hellhole for which the Orleck would simply gradually go broke for lack of public access," Harrell told the neighborhoods committee Monday.

Harrell aims to open a veterans museum next to the Orleck's final location, but the endeavor is separate from JHNSA's contract with the city. Harrell does not work for JHNSA but argued that a lack of parking and public access to Pier 1 would ultimately hurt both the ship and his burgeoning museum.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/politics/government/2022/12/11/jacksonville-city-council-to-decide-next-move-former-navy-ship-uss-orleck/69714734007/

[Tacachale]

If Pier One is a hellhole, it probably wasn't smart for the museum to pick it as the intended location. A lot of the logistics here are half baked.

[heights unknown]

LOL......."Hell Hole." LOL.

[vicupstate]

You don't have to be Jeanne Dixon to predict this is a fiasco in the making, similar to Brewster Hospital or whatever it was that was owned by a fraternity as it rotted away.

[Snaketoz]

The Orleck is a consolation prize due to the demise of Offshore Power Systems.  Exciting times in the River City.

[Charles Hunter]

You don't have to be Jeanne Dixon to predict this is a fiasco in the making, similar to Brewster Hospital or whatever it was that was owned by a fraternity as it rotted away.

How to tell us how old you are without telling us how old you are. 

[simms3]

I think it's great the ship is here - I think it's absolutely fantastic.  I question, personally, just how much of "the view of the river" from the 2nd-4th floor of the hotel is absolutely blocked by the ship.  I question that the ship itself isn't some bit of a unique view for guests in some rooms.  I question views from "event space" there as every event I've been to there has been completely interior with no views outside whatsoever.

But this is all a moot point.  This ship I liken to another park, or so.  It is actually relevant and representative of our city, being a Navy city.  We had really nothing in that regard until this ship came.  I'm surprised the city isn't doing MORE to accommodate the ship and make a thing of it.  We throw all this money all over the place with literally almost no results to speak of - how do we not already have a wonderful public pier to host this ship at?

How is the Fire Museum still closed?  In fact, it's great that we've allocated all of this money to the Shipyards Park and the former Landing site, but it still takes way too long for anything to even get built.  There is no urgency, ever, with this city, except for when it comes to throwing money and incentives to "friends and family" of the good old boys network.

Long term, I could see this naval ship museum being successful - it's the only one in the entire state of Florida.  We have tons of vets who would be interested in a visit or tour.  Granted, they may pay vet prices, which may mean "free", but it's worth it for a valuable community of people who have actually served their country.  We've ruined Boy Scouts, as we have pretty much everything now, but as has been mentioned it's the perfect spot for BSA or similar groups to have events, tours, campouts, etc.

It's a wholesome attraction that fits Jacksonville very well, and I personally love seeing that ship on our downtown riverbank.  I consider it a worthy part of our skyline and one of the most interesting structures in it.  But this is Jacksonville and it's never been a city known for its execution on anything and that's really the crux of it.

[simms3]

Slightly off topic, but since this is the riverfront and Pier 1 is basically adjoined to the future Shipyards Park, where we've allocated something like $25M, with another $25M or so give or take for the Landing another $16M or so for Metropolitan Park, all adding up to something like +/- 75 acres, I do find it interesting that Omaha, NE is supposedly spending $325M on its 72 acres of riverfront parks.  I've been to Omaha and it's a very clean, very put together city with an attractive and vibrant downtown.  I was super impressed.  Given that we have more people in Duval County alone than Omaha has in its metro, it's always fascinating to me that we can't come close to competing, dollar for dollar.  They are even getting a new tallest.

See article below:

https://www.visitomaha.com/about-omaha/development/

$325 million transformational development including three existing parks over 72 acres. Features will include a Performance Pavilion, Sculpture Garden, interactive water features, Skate Ribbon, Event Lawns, Urban Beach, destination playgrounds, and The Kiewit Luminarium, a multi-million dollar STEM interactive family museum. The first of three parks has reopened. Check out current renderings here.


Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me.  Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck?  That's supposedly the vision.  Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.

[heights unknown]

Move it, make a park out of the area where it will be moored/berthed, how hard is this to do? I agree, WHY can't they get this right. If they were going to bring the Orleck here, they should have planned accordingly and had all of this figured out before towing her here. GET IT RIGHT!!! As a retired Navy Sailor (Chief Petty Officer), I am elated that the Orleck is here, and I will slam down my money (or my card) to take a visit being that I am an Aircraft Carrier Sailor and never served on a Small Boy/Destroyer. So they really need to turn to, get the job done, and get this Museum cranking. I think some of our leaders need to go visit the USS MIDWAY MUSEUM in San Diego California. The Midway is a World War 2 Midway Class Carrier built in 1946 and it is one of the most successful Museums in the nation and in the world of its kind, and, it has been in San Diego since 2004. Extremely successful. Maybe if they would take a trip there to see it, it would motivate them to get some fire going under the Orleck Museum Project.

[jaxlongtimer]

Slightly off topic, but since this is the riverfront and Pier 1 is basically adjoined to the future Shipyards Park, where we've allocated something like $25M, with another $25M or so give or take for the Landing another $16M or so for Metropolitan Park, all adding up to something like +/- 75 acres, I do find it interesting that Omaha, NE is supposedly spending $325M on its 72 acres of riverfront parks.  I've been to Omaha and it's a very clean, very put together city with an attractive and vibrant downtown.  I was super impressed.  Given that we have more people in Duval County alone than Omaha has in its metro, it's always fascinating to me that we can't come close to competing, dollar for dollar.  They are even getting a new tallest.

See article below:

https://www.visitomaha.com/about-omaha/development/

$325 million transformational development including three existing parks over 72 acres. Features will include a Performance Pavilion, Sculpture Garden, interactive water features, Skate Ribbon, Event Lawns, Urban Beach, destination playgrounds, and The Kiewit Luminarium, a multi-million dollar STEM interactive family museum. The first of three parks has reopened. Check out current renderings here.

Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me.  Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck?  That's supposedly the vision.  Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.

Omaha isn't likely stockpiling its cash and bonding capabilities to give a billionaire hundreds of millions of dollars and more for his pet projects and the stadium upgrades his NFL team will soon be expecting.  Add to it the hundreds of millions and more dollars going to politico's developer-friends' projects, boondoggles like autonomous vehicles and port improvements benefitting private interests only and an outer beltway, 9B and other interstate projects benefitting connected land owners (mostly in other counties!) rather than to infrastructure such as transit, streetscapes, parks, historic preservation and other community assets. Take all those dollars and spread them around our community as you suggest and mystery solved!

[thelakelander]

Lakeland just built a $110 million park fully funded through donations from local companies and residents. It took six or seven years to go from concept to opening the park. So there's that example floating out there too. Its not always about waiting for city officials to give money or provide funding.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/floridas-latest-urban-park-bonnet-springs-park/

[thelakelander]

Omaha isn't likely stockpiling its cash and bonding capabilities to give a billionaire hundreds of millions of dollars and more for his pet projects and the stadium upgrades his NFL team will soon be expecting.  Add to it the hundreds of millions and more dollars going to politico's developer-friends' projects, boondoggles like autonomous vehicles and port improvements benefitting private interests only and an outer beltway, 9B and other interstate projects benefitting connected land owners (mostly in other counties!) rather than to infrastructure such as transit, streetscapes, parks, historic preservation and other community assets. Take all those dollars and spread them around our community as you suggest and mystery solved!

Most of the highway projects are funded by FDOT. Omaha and all these other places also get billions in similar road projects in their communities as well. So Jax is no special case on that end.

[thelakelander]

Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me.  Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck?  That's supposedly the vision.  Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.

The issue with the Orleck is that it was never supposed to be a COJ funded project. It's backers sold the community on something that would not need local tax money. Now, the thing hasn't even been in town a full year and has cost taxpayers millions already. More local tax money will be needed to keep it afloat because without it, it won't survive the years it will take COJ to complete anything at Shipyards Park. Two previous cities got rid of the money pit. So from this perspective, it's not really baffling why the Orleck has had issues with obtaining COJ money and support.

I do believe that sending it to the Shipyards will be a potential nail in the ship's coffin if millions of COJ money isn't provided to subsidize it. With that said, has any thought been given to letting it block the river view of a non tax revenue COJ owned riverfront spot like the Landing, Friendship Fountain or the former county courthouse parking lot?