Jacksonville Mayoral Election 2023

[BridgeTroll]

There is no "case" for the electoral college. Its a failure that lets candidates with fewer votes win elections.  Hopefully at some point, we'll admit the Founding Fathers made some serious miscalculations.  The concept of the electoral college being one.

The case for the EC is exactly what you're arguing... that the uninformed public will make a poor choices and intelligent, informed, smart electors(like yourselves) make the correct choice... rofl... you guys are soooo transparently elitist you must have body guards and entourages.

Meanwhile Curry stands at 47% approval and Biden at 44%... just who is the sea slug MM?

So not wanting to be governed by the minority is elitist?  The EC actual made some sense in the 1780's, but it does not today. Given how broken our political system is today, a switch to a parliamentary system looks a lot better.  No chance of either happening. Getting a Constitutional Amendment to say the sun rises in the East would be impossible today. 

Nope... what is elitist is the "I don't trust the public at large and those poorly informed and lacking "proper" judgement being allowed to vote " quote from MM and others. Actually wannabe elitist is a better descriptor...

To the degree that the public is uninformed (to whatever degree), how does the EC improve that situation?  How does being against the EC make one elitist or how does the EC guard against elitism? Does using the EC make the electorate more informed?

I don't understand the point you were trying to make.   

The reference to the EC was a poke at my democrat friends who clearly want the EC revoked or rescinded. One of the many reasons for the EC was to prevent the uninformed or mislead public from electing the "wrong " candidate...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College

"The function of the College of Electors in choosing the president can be likened to that in the Roman Catholic Church of the College of Cardinals selecting the Pope. The original idea was for the most knowledgeable and informed individuals from each State to select the president based solely on merit and without regard to State of origin or political party."[43]

According to Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, in a dissenting opinion, the original intention of the framers was that the electors would not feel bound to support any particular candidate, but would vote their conscience, free of external pressure.

"No one faithful to our history can deny that the plan originally contemplated, what is implicit in its text, that electors would be free agents, to exercise an independent and nonpartisan judgment as to the men best qualified for the Nation's highest offices."[44]

In support for his view, Justice Jackson cited Federalist No. 68:

'It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any pre-established body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture... It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.'

Dr. Philip J. VanFossen of Purdue University explains that the original purpose of the electors was not to reflect the will of the citizens, but rather to "serve as a check on a public who might be easily misled."[45]

Dr. Randall Calvert, the Eagleton Professor of Public Affairs and Political Science at Washington University, St. Louis, stated, "At the framing the more important consideration was that electors, expected to be more knowledgeable and responsible, would actually do the choosing."[46]

[jaxlongtimer]

There is no "case" for the electoral college. Its a failure that lets candidates with fewer votes win elections.  Hopefully at some point, we'll admit the Founding Fathers made some serious miscalculations.  The concept of the electoral college being one.

The case for the EC is exactly what you're arguing... that the uninformed public will make a poor choices and intelligent, informed, smart electors(like yourselves) make the correct choice... rofl... you guys are soooo transparently elitist you must have body guards and entourages.

Meanwhile Curry stands at 47% approval and Biden at 44%... just who is the sea slug MM?

So not wanting to be governed by the minority is elitist?  The EC actual made some sense in the 1780's, but it does not today. Given how broken our political system is today, a switch to a parliamentary system looks a lot better.  No chance of either happening. Getting a Constitutional Amendment to say the sun rises in the East would be impossible today. 

Nope... what is elitist is the "I don't trust the public at large and those poorly informed and lacking "proper" judgement being allowed to vote " quote from MM and others. Actually wannabe elitist is a better descriptor...

The answer isn't just eliminating the electoral college.  It's better educating the voting public, raising the bar for civil discourse and political campaign marketing along with removing the corruptive influence of campaign financing, voter suppression and gerrymandering.  We are far from fixing any of these issues and its getting worse, not better. 

The conservative Supreme Court and GOP are complicit in exacerbating all these issues and that's why, despite countervailing popular votes and/or demographics, they are holding on to the reigns of power.  For all of Trump and cronies complaining about rigged elections, it is their party that is doing most of the rigging by intimidating, suppressing and/or discouraging voting by voters likely to vote for others, transferring the fate of contested elections to the hands of nonprofessional and partisan elections officials and/or legislatures, running phantom candidates, taking gerrymandering to new extremes, etc. 

One of the worst decisions by the Supreme Court was Citizens United, deeming corporations "people" that can donate to campaigns with little or no constraints, accountability or disclosure.  Look no further than the dark money that Florida Power & Light/Nextera has used to influence Florida politics and the sale of JEA. And, we only know about that due to litigation and whistleblowing.  For sure, there are thousands more examples that never see the light of day.  Just see our elected officials kotow to special interests to see evidence of same.

[MusicMan]

"Dr. Philip J. VanFossen of Purdue University explains that the original purpose of the electors was not to reflect the will of the citizens, but rather to "serve as a check on a public who might be easily misled."[45]

Clearly no longer works!  In any case, the public picks the candidate, and they are still easily mislead.

[BridgeTroll]

"Dr. Philip J. VanFossen of Purdue University explains that the original purpose of the electors was not to reflect the will of the citizens, but rather to "serve as a check on a public who might be easily misled."[45]

Clearly no longer works!  In any case, the public picks the candidate, and they are still easily mislead.

Of course they could simply be making free choices you don't agree with... how is that sea slug comparison going?

[vicupstate]

There is no "case" for the electoral college. Its a failure that lets candidates with fewer votes win elections.  Hopefully at some point, we'll admit the Founding Fathers made some serious miscalculations.  The concept of the electoral college being one.

The case for the EC is exactly what you're arguing... that the uninformed public will make a poor choices and intelligent, informed, smart electors(like yourselves) make the correct choice... rofl... you guys are soooo transparently elitist you must have body guards and entourages.

Meanwhile Curry stands at 47% approval and Biden at 44%... just who is the sea slug MM?

So not wanting to be governed by the minority is elitist?  The EC actual made some sense in the 1780's, but it does not today. Given how broken our political system is today, a switch to a parliamentary system looks a lot better.  No chance of either happening. Getting a Constitutional Amendment to say the sun rises in the East would be impossible today. 

Nope... what is elitist is the "I don't trust the public at large and those poorly informed and lacking "proper" judgement being allowed to vote " quote from MM and others. Actually wannabe elitist is a better descriptor...

The answer isn't just eliminating the electoral college.  It's better educating the voting public, raising the bar for civil discourse and political campaign marketing along with removing the corruptive influence of campaign financing, voter suppression and gerrymandering.  We are far from fixing any of these issues and its getting worse, not better. 

The conservative Supreme Court and GOP are complicit in exacerbating all these issues and that's why, despite countervailing popular votes and/or demographics, they are holding on to the reigns of power.  For all of Trump and cronies complaining about rigged elections, it is their party that is doing most of the rigging by intimidating, suppressing and/or discouraging voting by voters likely to vote for others, transferring the fate of contested elections to the hands of nonprofessional and partisan elections officials and/or legislatures, running phantom candidates, taking gerrymandering to new extremes, etc. 

One of the worst decisions by the Supreme Court was Citizens United, deeming corporations "people" that can donate to campaigns with little or no constraints, accountability or disclosure.  Look no further than the dark money that Florida Power & Light/Nextera has used to influence Florida politics and the sale of JEA. And, we only know about that due to litigation and whistleblowing.  For sure, there are thousands more examples that never see the light of day.  Just see our elected officials kotow to special interests to see evidence of same.

+1000

[vicupstate]

"Dr. Philip J. VanFossen of Purdue University explains that the original purpose of the electors was not to reflect the will of the citizens, but rather to "serve as a check on a public who might be easily misled."[45]

Clearly no longer works!  In any case, the public picks the candidate, and they are still easily mislead.

Of course they could simply be making free choices you don't agree with... how is that sea slug comparison going?

If you can rig the game, you can get any result you seek, it has nothing to do with free choice. If it reflected free choice, there would be no EC.   

[MusicMan]

It seems we have come to the conclusion, without meaning to, that the EC is the ultimate elitist construct.  BT I am with you, let "We the People" decide. Throw the EC in the dustbin.

[BridgeTroll]

It seems we have come to the conclusion, without meaning to, that the EC is the ultimate elitist construct.  BT I am with you, let "We the People" decide. Throw the EC in the dustbin.

Good luck with that... better luck with the whole sea slug thing...

[jaxlongtimer]

Audrey Gibson just threw her hat in the mayor's race:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/530327-gibson-mayor/

[Tacachale]

Here we go.

[Charles Hunter]

Initial reaction - this will hurt Deegan, as likely Gibson voters are also likely Deegan voters against Curry Republicans. Very few likely Gibson voters seem to be likely voters for the Curry Republicans. Will this allow two Curry Republicans to advance to the general election?

[jaxlongtimer]

^ I don't know where Gibson's donor base is but it will be telling if it's mostly traditional GOP donors.  Sad to see the constant siphoning off from, and/or division among, decent candidates allowing the type of recent mayors we have had until now holding the office.

[tufsu1]

Audrey Gibson just threw her hat in the mayor's race:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/530327-gibson-mayor/

Expected but unfortunate (especially for Donna Deegan) - if this leads to Davis vs. Gibson in runoff, it won't be close - or imagine if this means Davis and Cumber end up being the top two

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Agreed.  It seems clear to me that Gibson's base is not likely to provide the dollars needed for this campaign.  If GOP-ers are her donors, that should make it clear to her base that she is only going to be a spoiler for the Democrats and assure the election of another GOP mayor who will likely only give lip service to Gibson's base.

I doubt Davis or Cumber are going to be nonpartisan (maybe with the exception of a minor bone thrown to Gibson for being a spoiler?)  when it comes to running this City, just as Curry isn't.

[jaxoNOLE]

What incentive does Gibson have to take GOP money and sabotage her own party? Does she legitimately think she can make it to the final 2?